I have zero friends (Pirates of Sartosa)

[Lenny]

I generally dislike the aversion traits, except for the most severe cases like Dark elves vs High elves, but some factions are just getting an unfair deal. The widespread hatred for factions like Pirates of Sartosa are just unreasonable and it makes little sense IMO.

The Empire hates me as much as they hate Greenskins and Norscans, despite hiring me as a privateer for one of my story missions. They hate me more than twice as much as regular Vampire Counts in fact.

Dark elves hates me twice as much as Greenskins or Beastmen, while having no opinions on Skaven. I guess they like filthy rats more than zombies but I can´t see why that would be.

Skaven don´t care about Dark elves but hates me -30. Why not right.

Tomb kings has no opinion on others except a -10 dislike for lizardmen, and whopping -40 hatred for me. What did I do?!


The only factions that at least only slightly dislikes me are distant, land-locked Vampire Counts and Beastmen. Don´t know why beastmen would even distinguish Sartosa from other human settlements but, whatever.

Raiding the enemy of another faction is enough to unite them both against a common enemy; me. I have yet to successfully land a single trade agreement with anyone, and the fact that pirate coves can be made to boost trade income seems like a joke.

So basically, I suck.

How are you guys handling it?

[Simple Kind of Man]

BLOODY PIRATES

[Fey Dragonette]

Welcome to Vampirates.

I've always handled Aversions by attacking the enemy of someone who hates me, it makes them less likely to attack me, while still expanding and growing my power.

Once your power rating is high enough, the AI will be very hesitant to attack you.

[Threetails]

I've found that I usually don't have significant neighbors. Take the Southern Realms provinces, head down south into the desert for more free real estate.

Sack coastal cities, build your pirate ships and coves, profit.

[abyssalfury]

Yeah, Aversion is...not great. There needs to be more 'neutral' factions that don't really care about you unless you specifically interact with them, and better balance for some factions to be able to get at least SOME allies.

I'm currently playing Drycha, so it feels like my campaign 'flow' should be pretty simple - I fight in my immediate area (either Empire/VC) until I can go and attack main WE forces. But then I've got Moulder and some random Norscan faction coming to attack me despite the fact that I'd never interacted with them - why? The only thing it adds to the campaign is frustration. There's no real reason for these factions to specifically hate me over the half dozen+ other factions they need to walk past to get to me. And it's because they have massive Aversion penalties 'just because'.

Meanwhile, the game gives bonus to push me towards teaming up with the bad guys (VC/DE), and it doesn't matter. Those bonuses will, at best, address the Aversion penalty. Manny still barely tolerates me despite the fact I burned large amounts of the Empire to help him out. Morathi still hated me the second I went into Gaean Vale.

Before that my last campaign was The Awakened. So yeah, pretty much non stop 'everyone just hates you, even the other members of your own race'. And there's no real reason for a lot of the factions to hate you just for existing - let them hate you because of your actions, not just because you decided to play the 'bad guys'.

[Zenbear]

Originally posted by abyssalfury:

Yeah, Aversion is...not great. There needs to be more 'neutral' factions that don't really care about you unless you specifically interact with them, and better balance for some factions to be able to get at least SOME allies.

I'm currently playing Drycha, so it feels like my campaign 'flow' should be pretty simple - I fight in my immediate area (either Empire/VC) until I can go and attack main WE forces. But then I've got Moulder and some random Norscan faction coming to attack me despite the fact that I'd never interacted with them - why? The only thing it adds to the campaign is frustration. There's no real reason for these factions to specifically hate me over the half dozen+ other factions they need to walk past to get to me. And it's because they have massive Aversion penalties 'just because'.

Meanwhile, the game gives bonus to push me towards teaming up with the bad guys (VC/DE), and it doesn't matter. Those bonuses will, at best, address the Aversion penalty. Manny still barely tolerates me despite the fact I burned large amounts of the Empire to help him out. Morathi still hated me the second I went into Gaean Vale.

Before that my last campaign was The Awakened. So yeah, pretty much non stop 'everyone just hates you, even the other members of your own race'. And there's no real reason for a lot of the factions to hate you just for existing - let them hate you because of your actions, not just because you decided to play the 'bad guys'.

I could be mistaken but isn't moulders main quest setting him up to be in opposition to the wood elves specifically?

[Fey Dragonette]

Originally posted by Zenbear:

Originally posted by abyssalfury:

Yeah, Aversion is...not great. There needs to be more 'neutral' factions that don't really care about you unless you specifically interact with them, and better balance for some factions to be able to get at least SOME allies.

I'm currently playing Drycha, so it feels like my campaign 'flow' should be pretty simple - I fight in my immediate area (either Empire/VC) until I can go and attack main WE forces. But then I've got Moulder and some random Norscan faction coming to attack me despite the fact that I'd never interacted with them - why? The only thing it adds to the campaign is frustration. There's no real reason for these factions to specifically hate me over the half dozen+ other factions they need to walk past to get to me. And it's because they have massive Aversion penalties 'just because'.

Meanwhile, the game gives bonus to push me towards teaming up with the bad guys (VC/DE), and it doesn't matter. Those bonuses will, at best, address the Aversion penalty. Manny still barely tolerates me despite the fact I burned large amounts of the Empire to help him out. Morathi still hated me the second I went into Gaean Vale.

Before that my last campaign was The Awakened. So yeah, pretty much non stop 'everyone just hates you, even the other members of your own race'. And there's no real reason for a lot of the factions to hate you just for existing - let them hate you because of your actions, not just because you decided to play the 'bad guys'.

I could be mistaken but isn't moulders main quest setting him up to be in opposition to the wood elves specifically?

Some factions canonically are too untrustworthy to have allies, or revolting, or sinful

[Lenny]

Originally posted by Radiant:

Originally posted by Zenbear:

I could be mistaken but isn't moulders main quest setting him up to be in opposition to the wood elves specifically?

Some factions canonically are too untrustworthy to have allies, or revolting, or sinful

I don´t think we can blame the source material here. Skaven are always described as universally backstabbing, treacherous, verminous and revolting little monsters that dream of devouring all others, and yet they have 4 races that are completely indifferent to them; WoC, Dark Elves, other Skaven and Tomb Kings.

Meanwhile the free-roaming and mercenary Vampire Coast has zero potential friends. Is it a case of not being treacherous enough for the bad guys, and at the same time not good enough for ordertide, plus Tomb Kings because why not?

Actually the fact that even Tomb Kings hate them, and ONLY them, suggests that it´s some kind of weird gameplay decision.

[abyssalfury]

Originally posted by Zenbear:

Originally posted by abyssalfury:

Yeah, Aversion is...not great. There needs to be more 'neutral' factions that don't really care about you unless you specifically interact with them, and better balance for some factions to be able to get at least SOME allies.

I'm currently playing Drycha, so it feels like my campaign 'flow' should be pretty simple - I fight in my immediate area (either Empire/VC) until I can go and attack main WE forces. But then I've got Moulder and some random Norscan faction coming to attack me despite the fact that I'd never interacted with them - why? The only thing it adds to the campaign is frustration. There's no real reason for these factions to specifically hate me over the half dozen+ other factions they need to walk past to get to me. And it's because they have massive Aversion penalties 'just because'.

Meanwhile, the game gives bonus to push me towards teaming up with the bad guys (VC/DE), and it doesn't matter. Those bonuses will, at best, address the Aversion penalty. Manny still barely tolerates me despite the fact I burned large amounts of the Empire to help him out. Morathi still hated me the second I went into Gaean Vale.

Before that my last campaign was The Awakened. So yeah, pretty much non stop 'everyone just hates you, even the other members of your own race'. And there's no real reason for a lot of the factions to hate you just for existing - let them hate you because of your actions, not just because you decided to play the 'bad guys'.

I could be mistaken but isn't moulders main quest setting him up to be in opposition to the wood elves specifically?

The story line in Vortex is that Drycha feeds him info so that he'll attack Ariel (as represented by the Sisters) in an attempt to weaker her, so that Drycha can then finish her off. But in ME he's got no real reason to go after Drycha.

Though it might be because all factions within a race have the same Aversion penalties? But that should change if that is the case, to represent factions that may be treated differently (Arkhan vs the rest of the Tomb Kings is another example).

[The Hat]

OVN and other faction adding mods will give you a lot more neutral or at least only -10 to -15 factions wandering around, I find these faction mods add more opportunity to the diplomacy system. Specifically OVN for sartosa it apparently adds a potential ally if you can save them. The flaming scimitar with a +50 relations boost on the east coast of lustria.

[Fey Dragonette]

Originally posted by The Hat:

OVN and other faction adding mods will give you a lot more neutral or at least only -10 to -15 factions wandering around, I find these faction mods add more opportunity to the diplomacy system. Specifically OVN for sartosa it apparently adds a potential ally if you can save them. The flaming scimitar with a +50 relations boost on the east coast of lustria.

Eh at 10-15 aversion no one will attack you, which makes for a boring environment.

[franz]

Aranessa , skarsnik all these you guys complain about is piiss easy , you just cant start building everywhere and think you are KF empire. You are not and everyone hates you (aranessa) !

[The Hat]

Originally posted by Radiant:

Originally posted by The Hat:

OVN and other faction adding mods will give you a lot more neutral or at least only -10 to -15 factions wandering around, I find these faction mods add more opportunity to the diplomacy system. Specifically OVN for sartosa it apparently adds a potential ally if you can save them. The flaming scimitar with a +50 relations boost on the east coast of lustria.

Eh at 10-15 aversion no one will attack you, which makes for a boring environment.

Oh there are still plenty of people that hate you lol, more in fact.

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

Are you in vortex or mortal empires? In ME I became the puppet master and alllowed skyre to grow and take stalia - bretonia for me as the profit from land settlement is very little. Gotta gut bretonnia early before they conferate. (By allowed I mean I allied them, destroyed thr defenses myself and alloeed them to take that land. They wont grow much otherwise)

It's kind of what the vampirates get. No one likes you. Some other vampirates might tolerate you, and bad facgions might be friends if you attack the good guys enough.

The Greenskins are also a friend if you can manage to attack the empire enough.

You don't have many choices because if you leave them alive they'll declare on you anyway.

Haven't been able to do anything with DE.

Other vampirates don't really make good friends because they tend to be useless and you get a huge penalty for treaties with them.

In vortex is more complicated because you don't get neither skryre nor greenskins. What I learned is not to do a frontal assault on ulthuan and maybe go for lustria. Even those bretonnians can pack a punch early because you need monsters to handle their cavalry.

Tip: build your main ship and look for skaven places or orc places. Both will have good battle markers to raise dead. Densely populated areas with lots of conflict (lustria) help too. You can raise a whole lot of your army right there and you don't need infrastructure. Building said infrastructure is extremely slow and expensive henceforth better to do it on your admiral ship than on land.