Talsyn(Orion)

[Gorwe]

Why's it considered crap? Does it have something to do with high difficulties? It's my favorite faction(probably - certainly one of top ones), so I want to understand.

[abyssalfury]

I imagine it's mostly because he buffs the worst parts of the WE roster (Cav) and his starting position is five minutes walk from another other LL option Durthu, who's a ♥♥♥♥ huge badass Treeman murder machine that buffs one of the good parts of the WE roster.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by abyssalfury:

I imagine it's mostly because he buffs the worst parts of the WE roster (Cav) and his starting position is five minutes walk from another other LL option Durthu, who's a ♥♥♥♥ huge badass Treeman murder machine that buffs one of the good parts of the WE roster.

But the cav isn't that bad. They are super fast(but really) and they counter what threatens you perfectly. Everything else gets shot to pieces. Oh and cheaper, better Sisters of Thorn? Omg, yes! And he has arguably the best offices(especially during the hunt), can zip around, has the best synergy with Ariel(I wonder why)...

...Durthu otoh? Yeah, he's good. But damn it, I don't like that part of roster. Is it tanky? Yes. Do WE need any of that except for Treemen? Not really. Cav + Arrows is really good. No wonder I like Talsyn so much. And it can only ger better(as opposed to something like Skryre which can only get nerfed).

[Quillithe]

Wait, wood elf cav are considered bad? They're my favorite cavalry faction, such a good selection that you can make cool all cav armies, they have every type you can think of (especially if you throw in some Zoats for anti-large).

[Zeek]

It's most likely because he's just the vanilla wood elf lord compared to daddy durthu, drycha, and the sisters who offer a much more fun campaign.

[chaosbringer42]

Orion has a couple issues.

First and foremost is that cavalry is objectively bad if you arent cycle charging on higher difficulties, so him buffing them is a meh. Cav archers are a little better, but generally worse than basic infantry archers (less hp, models, and dps).

Second would be that as a lord, Orion is pretty weak. He doesnt have that good faction buffs, nor special army buffs, and is one of the weaker LLs because hes a jack of all trades lord and just cant go toe to toe with many of the others.

It doesnt mean Orion is a terrible choice to play, its just the other wood elves are better to play if you are going by "whats better". I enjoy Orion myself even though hes bad.

[ArchAnge1LT]

Just that he has slow start, end game is as good as any other wood elf lord.

[Malarraenaepcaleac'h]

He has best starting location, most fun buffs in my opinion (he buffs Great Stags now, and ♥♥♥♥ off, they're good; just dont play on very hard), he has good spells, his javelin is overpowered lord sniping tool and he is sturdy af.

[Gorwe]

It'd seem that the consensus is split here, we have a hung jury.

Originally posted by Zeek:

It's most likely because he's just the vanilla wood elf lord compared to daddy durthu, drycha, and the sisters who offer a much more fun campaign.

Can be, yes. But Durthu is even worse imo. Because while ranged Glade Riders and Wild Riders are definitely useful(and he has a faction wide upkeep redux, thank the whatever), Dryads and Tree Kin are definitely less so. Maybe Durthu should start with 2 Amber? And Orion 1. Drycha and Sisters need none, they can get it much easier than these two.

Originally posted by chaosbringer42:

Orion has a couple issues.

First and foremost is that cavalry is objectively bad if you arent cycle charging on higher difficulties, so him buffing them is a meh. Cav archers are a little better, but generally worse than basic infantry archers (less hp, models, and dps).

Second would be that as a lord, Orion is pretty weak. He doesnt have that good faction buffs, nor special army buffs, and is one of the weaker LLs because hes a jack of all trades lord and just cant go toe to toe with many of the others.

It doesnt mean Orion is a terrible choice to play, its just the other wood elves are better to play if you are going by "whats better". I enjoy Orion myself even though hes bad.

Yes, it could be the issue of Very Hard. But by that metric, some factions are nigh unplayable on VH(Orcs, Counts etc). And they are most useful for cycle charging, but you are not really meant to use hammer and anvil. That's the key. You use them to harass vulnerable stuff while your Deepwoods / Waywatchers take care of everything else.

As for Ranged Cav, I don't think they're bad, far from it. You don't need Glade Guard with Orion(just use Glade Riders - preferably Hagbane) and I hope that I don't need to introduce Sisters(especially with Ariel present). There's very little that most factions can do vs Wild Rider + Glade Rider + Deepwood Scout(or Great Stag + Sisters + Waywatchers later).

As a Lord, he's ok. As most other ranged Lords, he really should be more precise. But that's true for throwing weapon infantry as well. Seeing how Orion double dips here, he really should be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ precise. He has what, 25 Ammo, so...you know. But I don't find him weak, no(he can be just as strong as Drycha, potentially as Durthu if you know what you're doing, Sisters...that's a power creep, ok). Maybe he could use more Armor and Speed, but that's largely irrelevant.

He also maybe could use better offices? Imo, his offices are the best, even outside the Wild Hunt, but...what I'm dismayed by is that HIS office gives...nothing? Should definitely give something(+3 Rank for Cav? Probably more).

With that said, I'd love to have a LL who focuses on infantry tactics. Who would that be? Findol? Daith? Someone else?

[Maximum997]

BTW why peoples play VH and put themself into ranged play trap? It is just stupid. You turn on penalties to then ignore all that penalties by playing ranged heavy armies

You can use Legend campaign+normal battles.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by maximum997:

BTW why peoples play VH and put themself into ranged play trap? It is just stupid. You turn on penalties to then ignore all that penalties by playing ranged heavy armies

You can use Legend campaign+normal battles.

Eh, people can play like they want. I prefer a difficulty that's more about roleplaying a little rather than abusing the system and AI as much as possible, but whatever's the most fun for the player.

Although some people are the crowd that has to be on max difficulty in every game all of the time, which seems a bit much.

[Maximum997]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by maximum997:

BTW why peoples play VH and put themself into ranged play trap? It is just stupid. You turn on penalties to then ignore all that penalties by playing ranged heavy armies

You can use Legend campaign+normal battles.

I prefer a difficulty that's more about roleplaying a little

Yep. Me too. Thats why i play legend+normal. So my longbeards will not loose to fkn gobbos in melee

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by maximum997:

Originally posted by Quillithe:

I prefer a difficulty that's more about roleplaying a little

Yep. Me too. Thats why i play legend+normal. So my longbeards will not loose to fkn gobbos in melee

Yeah, me too. Hard + Normal is the perfect spot imo.

In other news, I modded Alberic to focus more on Trade. Gee what a campaign(though I don't believe it will best Talsyn)! I guess most things will rank above poor Azhag. :)

[chaosbringer42]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Originally posted by maximum997:

Yep. Me too. Thats why i play legend+normal. So my longbeards will not loose to fkn gobbos in melee

Yeah, me too. Hard + Normal is the perfect spot imo.

In other news, I modded Alberic to focus more on Trade. Gee what a campaign(though I don't believe it will best Talsyn)! I guess most things will rank above poor Azhag. :)

The one good thing about Azhag is his starting spot, its one of the best in the game. An easily protected area with growth potential, with "friendlies" that die off by mid game once you are built up for even more growth potential.

Edit : you can also join the ordertide with this spot by killing off the nearby orcs and the VC

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by chaosbringer42:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Yeah, me too. Hard + Normal is the perfect spot imo.

In other news, I modded Alberic to focus more on Trade. Gee what a campaign(though I don't believe it will best Talsyn)! I guess most things will rank above poor Azhag. :)

The one good thing about Azhag is his starting spot, its one of the best in the game. An easily protected area with growth potential, with "friendlies" that die off by mid game once you are built up for even more growth potential.

Edit : you can also join the ordertide with this spot by killing off the nearby orcs and the VC

And you can(and should) "snipe" Grimgor once he has like 30+ Settlements. Even if you lose your army or two or even four, it is so much worth it! JUST. KILL("wound"). HIM!

Regardless, Rattlerz aren't bad, but they are far from Talsyn or Bretonnia(as a whole, I'm finishing Bordeleaux right now and it was a blast!). Just not fun enough. Cool, but not fun. :(

[Gorwe]

Regardless, once they sort out all this melee <-> ranged nonsense, it'll be interesting to revisit old races.

Ultimately, I just about love Talsyn. It's like a less clunky, more in your face Bretonnia. What's not to like?