全面战争:战锤2

全面战争:战锤2

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Trash Panda 2021 年 3 月 24 日 下午 4:13
Are Stormvermin ever worth it?
Been playing a lot of every faction lately, just won as Kholek and Harkon and now im doing Clan Moulder. I know skaven slaves > clan rats and to never recruit clan rats...ever....especially as moulder when slaves are literally just used as chaff, but in other factions are Stormvermin like EVER worth it?
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正在显示第 16 - 30 条,共 49 条留言
wpegg 2021 年 3 月 25 日 上午 2:33 
I found the halberd variety invaluable playing as Ikit but not as damage dealers. Skaven Slaves with spears do not have charge defence against large. This means that they cannot hold a flank against cavalry because the AI is able to path straight through (obviously your cavalry wheels round and tanks into the spears at the first opportunity). If you're really good then you are probably able to predict those flanking charges and target your jezzails at the flankers, but when there's Louen bearing down on you direct then you've got other things for them to worry about.

So for me the choice is between clanrats and stormvermin for holding that flank from whatever gets through and protecting your gunners. Stormvermin buy that extra charge for the gunners to turn around and shoot them as they pull out for their next. In fact I found that just "having" them on the flanks made the cavalry go through the apparent gap at the front instead.
franz 2021 年 3 月 25 日 上午 4:27 
never .
Ardariel 2021 年 3 月 25 日 上午 4:32 
引用自 Empukris
If you dont have DLC units, yes they are worth it in the end game skaven stack as you need all the damage that you can get even on VH difficulty otherwise they are not the most cost effective as DLC units have many better damage dealer.

Summons are the best unit to hold the line as skaven.

Even with no DLC they are too penalising for your army. Especially on lege (even if it is normal battle difficulty).
Firegeddon 2021 年 3 月 25 日 上午 4:46 
引用自 Mr Robert House
I’m sure you could get away with them on normal difficulty, with some heroes that buff leadership.

On vh/l, nope, just get more slaves or summoners.
when you say vh i m guessing you mean vh in battle right ?
chaosbringer42 2021 年 3 月 25 日 上午 5:12 
Stormvermin can be used in e/n battle difficulty with few issues. Their numbers and armor mean they can tank almost any unit for a LOOOOONG time on lesser difficulties (they have issues winning fights even on e/n but take forever to die :D).

On h/vh they become worthless for anything. They are barely better than shielded clanrats at tarpitting (I know people hate on clanrats, but they take 15ish seconds longer to break than slaves do in most cases, and thats more than enough for your ranged to kill everything) and only hold for maybe 5 extra seconds before breaking. They also block line of sight far more often because they are taller than the rest of your ratties, lowering your ranged dps. All that for a crapload more cash.

In general if you would need stormvermin for something its just better to take slaves, shieldrats, or a plague priest.
Eclipse 2021 年 3 月 25 日 上午 5:57 
I don't understand why they have 95 armor. They are equiped with a rusty and thin plate,not even a full plate. Greatswords have 90 if I am correct. In the tabletop game they also have less armor than human knight warriors and elven warriors.
Khan Boyzitbig of Mercia 2021 年 3 月 25 日 上午 6:05 
As Moulder you can get some crazy buffed stormvermin, frenzy makes them killier while their morale holds, hunger makes them heal in melee, and more besides. Plus you can march superbuffed rat ogres or better through them so the stormvermin tank for the monster.

I had at least one unit of stormvermin with about 60 MA/MD when fighting appropriate foes, and 50/55 when against everything else, don't invest too heavily in them but one or two can be useful.
Yes in the campaign if you have queek. Big upkeep reduction. Even better if tretch is your faction leader, due to extra buffs. Sadly tretch is still the weakest skaven choice.
DaBo81 2021 年 3 月 25 日 上午 6:33 
On harder battle settings, all melee infantry are devalued, which is why you see people going mostly ranged, plus single entity units. That's the same for any faction. A good counter to gunline armies was stalk, but I imagine that's less viable now, with the updates. Personally I don't play on harder battle settings because I don't want to be railroaded into spamming ranged units.

On normal battle settings stormvermin are worth taking in small numbers, particularly the halberds. You don't have to just spam weapons teams on normal battle settings.
Pimpin Pippin 2021 年 3 月 25 日 上午 7:48 
Skaven artillery, globadiers and shooters often inflict horrible friendly fire.
Generally speaking they will damage and break any infantry unit you use as a front line, be it skavenslave or clanrat or stormvermin.

So if you are going to use stormvermins make sure you do not place them where your arty/shooters will fire.
You can use them more easily in armies that lack friendly fire like monster/chariot armies or in eshin ninja style armies or just mass infantry armies.

Stormvermin are also great to guard your shooter/arty flanks from heavy flankers.
But as others have said they feel overpriced for what they bring.
Frankly their biggest advantage is that they bring decent frontline in a single army unit slot, so instead of 3 skavenslaves or 2 clanrats you can perhaps use 1 stormvermin.

Oh and if you want to enjoy manual battles then NEVER change battle difficulty from Normal.
Any other battle difficulty will utterly break unit balance and you will end up with enemy archers beating up your heavy cavalry.
最后由 Pimpin Pippin 编辑于; 2021 年 3 月 25 日 上午 7:49
Srab23厄 2021 年 3 月 25 日 下午 12:44 
引用自 Trash Panda
Been playing a lot of every faction lately, just won as Kholek and Harkon and now im doing Clan Moulder. I know skaven slaves > clan rats and to never recruit clan rats...ever....especially as moulder when slaves are literally just used as chaff, but in other factions are Stormvermin like EVER worth it?
I think stormvermin are so expensive to keep the skaven faction squishy. They have a mobility and number advantage over every other faction, so the stormvermin are only averagely powerful and very expensive. They are the exception to the skaven weakness, and thus you pay premium for them.

One advantage they have over every other elite infantry is their unit size. It's not really exact, but you could think of a units total strenght as their stats * unit size. Since units route when they have suffered heavy losses this formula only applies to unbreakable units, and not every unit fights simultaneously on the front line, but I think that any stat modifiers are especially effective on larger sized units.
Mr Robert House 2021 年 3 月 25 日 下午 12:57 
You have to pay rats well or else they’ll run off with the armor and food as soon as there’s a fight.
Honor Guard 2021 年 3 月 25 日 下午 2:18 
without DLC,Storm vermin are kinda needed for anti lizardmen (They can fight & Win against sarus ,are easier to recruit than a plague priest ,and are given halberds which help against the large stuff) but I main,y suggest the halberd variant ,feels a whole lot better to have than the S&S version
引用自 Honor Guard
without DLC,Storm vermin are kinda needed for anti lizardmen (They can fight & Win against sarus ,are easier to recruit than a plague priest ,and are given halberds which help against the large stuff) but I main,y suggest the halberd variant ,feels a whole lot better to have than the S&S version

Yes, halberds are way better. The sword varient needs a small anti infantry bonus to even out its lack of any usefulness.

For the clever, eagle eyed players out there you will notice that the halberds have a high defence (for skaven), which is further increased by their 'strength in numbers' perk which all skaven infantry have. Rank 9 halberds can actually hold a line pretty well due to higher morale and defence, as well as being able to take a cavalry charge from the front or even the side. As stated before i would never use stormvermin or even clanrats unless using queek or maybe tretch.

Lastly if you play as throt as your faction leader you can mutate these units and get their upkeep down to almost 0. This tends to make them a bit squishier but more powerfull and much cheaper to maintain. Best combat perks are the troll spleen (unit regen) together with necroparasites (dead models come back to life).
最后由 Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK) 编辑于; 2021 年 3 月 26 日 上午 5:48
Aleera 2021 年 3 月 26 日 上午 6:27 
引用自 cow99
引用自 Honor Guard
without DLC,Storm vermin are kinda needed for anti lizardmen (They can fight & Win against sarus ,are easier to recruit than a plague priest ,and are given halberds which help against the large stuff) but I main,y suggest the halberd variant ,feels a whole lot better to have than the S&S version

Yes, halberds are way better. The sword varient needs a small anti infantry bonus to even out its lack of any usefulness.

For the clever, eagle eyed players out there you will notice that the halberds have a high defence (for skaven), which is further increased by their 'strength in numbers' perk which all skaven infantry have. Rank 9 halberds can actually hold a line pretty well due to higher morale and defence, as well as being able to take a cavalry charge from the front or even the side. As stated before i would never use stormvermin or even clanrats unless using queek or maybe tretch.

Lastly if you play as throt as your faction leader you can mutate these units and get their upkeep down to almost 0. This tends to make them a bit squishier but more powerfull and much cheaper to maintain. Best combat perks are the troll spleen (unit regen) together with necroparasites (dead models come back to life).

Beg pardon? I love Stormvermin, others here can attest that I love melee infantry and will defend their usage. But Stormvermin halberds are inferior to the sword and shield variant.
The only thing the halberd does better, is AP and having a bonus vs large.

https://twwstats.com/unitscards?units=f%3D0%26k%3Dwh2_main_skv_inf_stormvermin_0%26m%26r%3D0%26v%3D4716316107383894702&units=f%3D0%26k%3Dwh2_main_skv_inf_stormvermin_1%26m%26r%3D0%26v%3D4716316107383894702

Here, stormvermin with shields actually have 3 base defense higher then halberds.
So, if you want them to hold the line. You bring the shield variant.
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发帖日期: 2021 年 3 月 24 日 下午 4:13
回复数: 49