Why does securing influence lower my reliability?

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Why does sending a noble to secure influence with a friendly faction tank my reliability more than declaring ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ war on them and breaking several treaties?

I went from very high to very low from securing influence once. I'm sending the guy on a diplomatic mission not sabotaging the walls.

[mcb0ny]

Securing influence is an equivalent of stealing technology as agents of other factions. It's a hostile action - spying, basically. Allies don't like when you spy on them. Is it that surprising, really?

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by mcb0ny:

Securing influence is an equivalent of stealing technology as agents of other factions. It's a hostile action - spying, basically. Allies don't like when you spy on them. Is it that surprising, really?

Except it isn't because stealing tech is literally a different thing you can do with an entirely different hero...

Securing Influence is specifically a high elf noble thing, and yes sending a noble to gain influence with a friendly faction counting the same as destroying the walls of their settlement is surprising to me considering It has zero negative effects on them whatsoever.

[dollars202]

Lol, that's like saying you sent the elf in as a honey trap for one of their politicos. People don't like it when you seduce their leaders for another nations benefit.

[mcb0ny]

Stealing tech also does not give any debuffs to the target, and yet you are not surprised that factions get angry when you do that, yes?

I guess it's an issue with how they named the ability: "Secure influence" does not sound harmful. It is though, just like, for example "securing assets" in some special forces operation usually means stealing or hijack. At least that's how i see it.

[zefyris]

hostile hero action on factions you have treaty with or on factions you had treaty with until less than 10 turns ago will always, no matter the action, tank your reliability.
It's a small amount each action but when cumulated you can go down after a while yes.

[Ardariel]

Messing up with other`s political systems does give you influence indeed... in price of lost trust. For refference check modern USA approach to external affairs. Influencial? Yes. Trusted? No. Same here. It is HOSTILE action and treated as such. If you want to gain influence in friendly way - use embassies and quests.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

Originally posted by zefyris:

hostile hero action on factions you have treaty with or on factions you had treaty with until less than 10 turns ago will always, no matter the action, tank your reliability.
It's a small amount each action but when cumulated you can go down after a while yes.

Its not a small amount, try it yourself if you do it once you tank from max reliability to near bottom.

Originally posted by dollars202:

Lol, that's like saying you sent the elf in as a honey trap for one of their politicos. People don't like it when you seduce their leaders for another nations benefit.

What you're describing is blackmail... That's a pretty loaded comparison.

Originally posted by mcb0ny:

Stealing tech also does not give any debuffs to the target, and yet you are not surprised that factions get angry when you do that, yes?

I guess it's an issue with how they named the ability: "Secure influence" does not sound harmful. It is though, just like, for example "securing assets" in some special forces operation usually means stealing or hijack. At least that's how i see it.

That's fair, I suppose that's the best way to put it the action sounds like a diplomatic mission and it's treated like an act of war. I'm fine with it being negative but they need to frame it that way so the player is aware that it is going to count as hostile.

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Messing up with other`s political systems does give you influence indeed... in price of lost trust. For refference check modern USA approach to external affairs. Influencial? Yes. Trusted? No. Same here. It is HOSTILE action and treated as such. If you want to gain influence in friendly way - use embassies and quests.

You're comparing a real world government to a video game hero action. I don't need to debate the silliness of that do I? And as if to make my point I thought it was a friendly way. It's not called "sabotage government" it's not called "blackmail the politicians" it's called "gain influence" That's a pretty vague term.

[Emilia Tempest]

Originally posted by mcb0ny:

Stealing tech also does not give any debuffs to the target, and yet you are not surprised that factions get angry when you do that, yes?

Actually, it does. -20% research rate (or if the skill was upgraded the upgraded value but you dont see that often from the AI) for the settlement.
If they keep doing it over and over on the same city it goes up in turns.

So in theory you could cuck the AI of never being able to do research if it has A) enough cities and B) you successfully steal technology from many of their settlements.
But it is rather useless apart from getting lots of tech and getting lots of levels for multiple heroes.

[mcb0ny]

Originally posted by Emilia Tempest:

Originally posted by mcb0ny:

Stealing tech also does not give any debuffs to the target, and yet you are not surprised that factions get angry when you do that, yes?

Actually, it does. -20% research rate (or if the skill was upgraded the upgraded value but you dont see that often from the AI) for the settlement.
If they keep doing it over and over on the same city it goes up in turns.

(...)

Ok, cool, so this skill does more than i expected. Good to know, thanks for the info ;]