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st0815 Sep 1, 2021 @ 2:48pm
Lore of beasts Useless in dealing damage?
Hi, is the lore of beasts useless even against tier 1 units? I had a fight with my high elven beast mage (the one you get at the start) against ork rebels. Only some gobbos and she got entire 6 kills with the raven and eagle spawn spell. Am I doing something wrong?
Last edited by st0815; Sep 1, 2021 @ 2:50pm
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Originally posted by Fendelphi:
Originally posted by Mactalon:
Key points worth noting -

Don't conflate "kills" with usefulness. Something doesn't need rack up kills to have extremely good utility.

On that point - Flock of Doom drains enemy health and is super cheap to cast. You'll see it better these days with the updates they've made but keep an eye on the damage your mage does rather than the kills they get. FoD doesn't often kill things outright but it does consistent, stable damage that you can control better than a vortex and put on key battle areas. Your other units get the kills but they get them quicker because you've sapped so much life already.

The Eagle/Manticore can fly, meaning it can distract/divebomb ranged units and characters to keep your troops alive, plus it's expendable by nature. This is incredibly useful.

The Amber spear can be railgunned through multiple units for decent damage/disruption and isn't too shabby against single targets either. Like fireballs it can also take out artillery pieces.
I agree with all of this.


Flock of Doom, against most infantry units, will deal 600 damage easily(and up to 720), ignoring armor, per unit affected by it. On the base cast. Overcast it, and you get nearly double the value(up to 1350 per unit affected). And there is no friendly fire.

Since morale penalties are based on health lost and not models, this can have a major impact on typical "horde" armies consisting of low tier troops. And there is no limit to how many units it can affect. If you hit 8 units, then that is about 5000 damage done in 1 base cast(6 WoM without upgrades). Overcast it, and it is about 10k damage for 12 WoM.
Most often, you will hit about 4 units per cast. But that is still more than 2500 damage done for 6 WoM.

The Eagle is a fair bit cheaper to summon than the Manticore, and while it is less powerful, it still has it's speed and flying capabilities, and perform much better than a zombie summon could. Zombie summons are basically a stationary roadblock, due to their low speed and low damage potential. And with the low range of summoning spells, you have to put your caster in a vulnerable postion to cast it on a good target(most of the time).
You really dont have this issue with Transformation of Kadon. Summon it at a safe location, then have it move quickly across the battlefield and engage what you think is the best target(usually enemy backline, intercepting enemy fliers or trying to harass enemy casters). If it accomplish it's objective before it's timer runs out, it has the mobility to move onto a new target.

The Amber Spear is probably the best magic missile for dealing with armored units of all categories and very hard to dodge due to it's speed. It is also great at chunking a high armored, high health target(like lords and heroes). Basically it is great for dealing with targets that your Flock of Doom is ineffective against.


As an extra, Lore of Beasts also have a very potent AoE debuff(-25% speed, -24 MA and -24 MD) on a decent duration(21 seconds) at a decent cost(11 WoM). You can use it to weaken an entire flank just before you hammer and anvil, weaken enemy heroes or lords that you want to duel and make it harder for enemies to disengage an unfavourable engagement.

Even the buff spells are pretty decent. Wyssan's Wildform increases the target(s) melee potential by buffing both damage and armor and Pann's Impenetrable Pelt is a fairly long lasting buff that makes it much easier to duel or outlast targets that have left their magic damage in the other pants.
The Wild Heart passive is just the icing on the cake, as it keeps your available WoM fairly consistent throughout the battle, especially if you pace yourself a bit.


So you have tools for dealing with blobs, single targets, duels and a very mobile summon. It is a very efficient and flexible lore.
The only thing it lacks is a heavy snare(50% slow or better) and healing, but very few lores get any of those and no lore get everything.
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Showing 1-15 of 27 comments
Tisiphone Edge Sep 1, 2021 @ 2:49pm 
It's more about buffs and summons than it is good at killing things directly. If you want to kill things with your mage directly try something else.
Last edited by Tisiphone Edge; Sep 1, 2021 @ 2:50pm
#1
st0815 Sep 1, 2021 @ 2:50pm 
Originally posted by Tisiphone Edge:
It's more about buffs and summons than it is good at killing things.
Well, the eagle wasn't even able to deal with archers in melee ^^
#2
Tisiphone Edge Sep 1, 2021 @ 2:58pm 
Originally posted by st0815:
Originally posted by Tisiphone Edge:
It's more about buffs and summons than it is good at killing things.
Well, the eagle wasn't even able to deal with archers in melee ^^
I wouldn't trust the Eagle to do much of anything alone. Blame the High Elves for not being cool enough for Manticores.
#3
Andrewbh2003 Sep 1, 2021 @ 3:08pm 
Originally posted by st0815:
Originally posted by Tisiphone Edge:
It's more about buffs and summons than it is good at killing things.
Well, the eagle wasn't even able to deal with archers in melee ^^
yeah but it was probably able to keep said archers from shooting at your expensive SEM
#4
st0815 Sep 1, 2021 @ 3:11pm 
Originally posted by Andrewbh2003:
Originally posted by st0815:
Well, the eagle wasn't even able to deal with archers in melee ^^
yeah but it was probably able to keep said archers from shooting at your expensive SEM
Zombies can do that too and they are cheaper and faster to research (first section of the skill tree)^^
If that's the best argument the eagle truly s*cks.
#5
Elitewrecker PT Sep 1, 2021 @ 3:11pm 
Flock of beasts might not get many kills but it does damage.
#6
Kaaz Sep 1, 2021 @ 3:12pm 
the missile from a side can be devastating with the amount of pierce it does
#7
st0815 Sep 1, 2021 @ 3:16pm 
Originally posted by Kaaz:
the missile from a side can be devastating with the amount of pierce it does
It can hit more than one target in a row?
#8
OckhamsRaptor Sep 1, 2021 @ 3:21pm 
Flock of doom is actually really powerfull right now. It deals HP damage to every model across all affected units so dont expect it to get many kills but it does do a lot of damage. You can hover your mouse over the kill counter of a unit to see how much damage they have dealt this battle and how much was it worth. Also amber spear is super fun for shooting through the entire enemy front line. Just cast it from the flank, on the ground and target the farthest enemy unit.
#9
Aleera Sep 1, 2021 @ 3:23pm 
Originally posted by st0815:
Originally posted by Kaaz:
the missile from a side can be devastating with the amount of pierce it does
It can hit more than one target in a row?

The missile in the lore of beast, amber spear was it? Is a railgun, it penetrates ALOT of models and can 1 shot a stretched line of ironbreakers no problem.

Flock of doom is a amazing damage spell, it's not burning head levels, but it's cheap and will do alot of damage over the course of a battle.
#10
The Sand Witch Sep 1, 2021 @ 3:25pm 
Agreed with kaaz, the spell is overshadowed by the more commonly used ones, but it smites pretty good against both single entities and blobs depending on the direction used
#11
Mr Robert House Sep 1, 2021 @ 3:26pm 
Spamming flock of doom is actually ok against like 6 infantry units who are close together, but a flake storm would be better

and the summon spells are for distracting the enemy and stopping missile units from firing

that being said, i never recruit beasts, always life/fire/light
#12
Falaris Sep 1, 2021 @ 3:57pm 
Flock of doom has the added advantage of targeting only enemies. That is a BIG DEAL for any reasonably chaotic battle or blob fight.

One FoD isn't doing a lot of damage though - as damage spells go, FoD is pretty weak, but the thing is, it's also cheap. If you combine it with cast-triggered abilities, you can keep that going all game and it really adds up.

I believe Zerkovitch added it in his list of spells that are extremely noob friendly - get it, and use it constantly, and you'll get value.

Link for reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ACzFnHwLnc
#13
Andrewbh2003 Sep 1, 2021 @ 5:21pm 
Originally posted by st0815:
Originally posted by Andrewbh2003:
yeah but it was probably able to keep said archers from shooting at your expensive SEM
Zombies can do that too and they are cheaper and faster to research (first section of the skill tree)^^
If that's the best argument the eagle truly s*cks.
ok?

thats called assymetrical balance baby

no one is saying that transformation of kadon is better than a zombie summon

but only 2 races get access to zombie summons and they happen to be the "summoning" focused races

for every other race they get transformation instead "Or at least every race that has lore of beasts"

i would rather have a weaker summon than no summon at all and thats what transformation exists for summon a manticore "Or eagle" and dive bomb the expensive high damage profile missile units in a backline to keep em from shooting at your heavy hitters and then smash through the frontline

the primary purpose of summons is to be disruptive and just cause its not as good or cost effective as zombie summons "again assymetrical balance no roster that has zombie summons has a manticore summon and vice-versa"

its almost as if certain races are designed to be better than others in certain areas
#14
Mactalon Sep 1, 2021 @ 5:44pm 
Key points worth noting -

Don't conflate "kills" with usefulness. Something doesn't need rack up kills to have extremely good utility.

On that point - Flock of Doom drains enemy health and is super cheap to cast. You'll see it better these days with the updates they've made but keep an eye on the damage your mage does rather than the kills they get. FoD doesn't often kill things outright but it does consistent, stable damage that you can control better than a vortex and put on key battle areas. Your other units get the kills but they get them quicker because you've sapped so much life already.

The Eagle/Manticore can fly, meaning it can distract/divebomb ranged units and characters to keep your troops alive, plus it's expendable by nature. This is incredibly useful.

The Amber spear can be railgunned through multiple units for decent damage/disruption and isn't too shabby against single targets either. Like fireballs it can also take out artillery pieces.
#15
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Date Posted: Sep 1, 2021 @ 2:48pm
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