Being ambushed while stationary and encamped

[Wolves in the Throne Room]

Two armies side by side and encamped and after several turns they are ambushed and wiped out. Happens repeatedly. Another dumb CA mechanic that needs fixed by modders.
An ambush by definition can only occur against moving targets and be triggered by a stationary target. Yet they are entering my territory and ambushing an encamped army. I don't know why I reinstalled this, even with 80 mods its still pretty dumb.

[SomeGuy1]

encamp stance should be giving you +100% ambush defense (which matters against enemies with Stalk like you seem to be griping about). Should make it prohibitively difficult (nearly impossible) to stalk ambush you. Maybe one of those 80 mods is taking that away?

[Warga]

Thats whack. Never really happens to me. What Race are you playing as that you keep getting ambushed as? maybe pick up some extra ambush defence. I never do but then i dont get ambushed while encamped (which gives absurd ambush defence)

[Raider Deci]

Originally posted by Wolves in the Throne Room:

An ambush by definition can only occur against moving targets and be triggered by a stationary target. Yet they are entering my territory and ambushing an encamped army.

Its definietly the dumbest iteration of ambush in the series, regular ones are sorta fine though. But there are no real encamp stance in the WH-games with a small little fort & so like in the 2 previous titles. I agree with SomeGuy1, encamped mode should be a hard counter against ambush-attacks.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Wolves in the Throne Room:

An ambush by definition can only occur against moving targets

Wrong.

An ambush, by definition, is "any attack by a hidden force on an unsuspecting adversary."

[Lack of Stuff]

I'd look at the mods. Encamp should make you almost impossible to stalk ambush. Depending on the enemy lord and heroes they might have a small chance but the AI never purposefully stacks ambush success chance bonuses.

[Lunos]

What army are you playing as and what are you fighting? It's almost impossible to ambush an encamped army after the ambush changes. If you are getting ambushed "repeatedly" then one of your 80 mods is probably at fault.

[Arthur two sheds Jackson]

encamp can still be ambush, just attack at dark when most are sleeping attack them when their pants are down haha

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Wolves in the Throne Room:

An ambush by definition can only occur against moving targets

There is more then one used definition of "ambush". A common one is as you say hiding, waiting for the enemy and then suddenly appearing to attack the enemy, requiring a moving target. However a unexpected attack (for example a night raid) is also commonly referred to as an ambush.

[Denveldon]

Well skaven wouldnt care if you are encamped, cause they just tunnel next to your backside

[Aleera]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

Originally posted by Wolves in the Throne Room:

An ambush by definition can only occur against moving targets

Wrong.

An ambush, by definition, is "any attack by a hidden force on an unsuspecting adversary."

Wrong, that's a surprise a attack. You lie in ambush, waiting for your prey to come to you. Ambush by very nature is you setting up a position to strike on a unsuspecting enemy that comes to YOU.

Stalk stance should not result in a ambush scenario, you should be able to field your army as you wish, but the enemy still gets the bonus 20 seconds start etc and vanguard. But not a line with your artillery in the back (seriously.. Who puts their weakest link in the back, that's just bad tactics)

[Raider Deci]

Originally posted by Aleera:

Wrong, that's a surprise a attack. You lie in ambush, waiting for your prey to come to you. Ambush by very nature is you setting up a position to strike on a unsuspecting enemy that comes to YOU.

A part of me want the old pre-rome2 system back for some of the races (such as wood elfs & beastmen) where it was not reliant on stances. Still not sold on getting ambushed as soon as youre in forced march (R2).
Iow when you put an army in the wood it gets hidden & ready to ambush, or for an updated wh-version maybe while in the woods it will grant an ambush-attack. A system that feels more fluid to the world.
Im still not sold on stances after almost a decade with them..

Originally posted by Aleera:

Stalk stance should not result in a ambush scenario, you should be able to field your army as you wish, but the enemy still gets the bonus 20 seconds start etc and vanguard.

Reminds me of the Anteans from Attilas slavic dlc. Those blokes got some hefty bonuses that could easily work for some wh-races.

"+20 morale, melee attack, melee defence, melee damage when fighting in forests
+20 morale, melee attack, melee defence, melee damage when fighting river battles
-10 morale, melee attack, melee defence, melee damage when fighting in grassland/open fields
"

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Aleera:

Wrong, that's a surprise a attack.

A "surprise attack" IS an ambush. It's just using two words to describe something that can be described in a single word (that single word being "ambush").

[Jose_Biden]

I imagine the encamp stance as like the Romans’ little mini forts they would hastily construct replete with little stockade walls made from nearby trees and even makeshift gate houses… I kinda agree with the OP and his grief on this one bc all ambush battles in this game start with the defending side clearly marching in a line.

That means the “encamped” force all got out of bed, left the encampment, pulled all their night sentries and started marching somewhere for no reason?

The game developers need to make a special version of an ambush on encamped armies that represents “encamped” defenders a little more realistically I think. Like have them start out in a little square formation with some obstacles to hide behind and a little more space between them and the ambushes.

[Wolves in the Throne Room]

I am a Wood Elf nation and I am setup with two armies encamped virtually on top of each other inside an ally's territory, right near the border of another nation and I had been sitting there for several turns, I sent two agents/characters into the territory to scout and they found nothing. Then bam it loads into the ambush screen and it's only one army of mine and it is being 'ambushed' by two Brayherd armies and they together ambush both of my armies back to back and they are wiped out. It's pretty crazy.