Morathi.. Why a loving mother?

[Violen]

While I do get the Trope, If feels really out of place with her character and the Dark elfs society..

Mostly tho i'm just disappointed That my otherwise all powerful ancient Evil sorceress waifu is such a loyal selfless goody too shoes... To a son that is a failure and ultimately far less worthy than herself - -

Why Would somebody of her stature, Stoop so low as to prop up and spoil such a brat like..Malekith I mean one fu*k up is ok, But like 1000's of years later and He hasn't accomplished anything, Only taking action when a Possable victory is dropped in his lap lol If he wasn't stuck in that armor h'ed probally be a ballooned out Faty that couldn't even support is own weight, Never moving from the couch and hollering for mama to bring him some food.
Its just so lame and off putting to an otherwise Awesome character.

Edit: So after reading Some of her lore linked and hearing your comments i gather:

She Doesn't really want to rule, But She does gain enormous satisfaction in corruption of other powerful people. Thus her fetish is to see change done to the world Not by her own hands, But by the people she has influenced with her beauty and corruption.
This does make me like her just a little bit more. Sadly this is not portrayed well in game if it is indeed the case. She comes off more as a Brainwashed servant of mal then anything else.

[Voxrox]

Malekith is her prop. As the last son of the great Aenarion, he gives HER legitimacy as well. She just uses him for her own selfish desires. She ruined his life, corrupted his path, is ultimately responsible that the great hero of the Elves fell to darkness, got his body burned, murdered millions of his kin...

She loves him? Yes, like one of those mothers that dress up their little girl and force her on these despicable mini miss beauty pagents...or those that declare their son has a super illness so they can feel like that poor, caring mother plagued with caring for her oh so ill little son all day...

For Morathi, Malekith is just that: A means to an end, her toy to use and dress up as king to fight all the evil in the world - the Elves of Ulthuan mostly ...

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Voxrox:

Malekith is her prop. As the last son of the great Aenarion, he gives HER legitimacy as well. She just uses him for her own selfish desires. She ruined his life, corrupted his path, is ultimately responsible that the great hero of the Elves fell to darkness, got his body burned, murdered millions of his kin...

She loves him? Yes, like one of those mothers that dress up their little girl and force her on these despicable mini miss beauty pagents...or those that declare their son has a super illness so they can feel like that poor, caring mother plagued with caring for her oh so ill little son all day...

For Morathi, Malekith is just that: A means to an end, her toy to use and dress up as king to fight all the evil in the world - the Elves of Ulthuan mostly ...

Not entirely true. Before Aenarion left her on his final trip, she actually started to love him, and she always actually loved Malekith because he is the result of her union with Aenarion.

Morathi is twisted and cold, but she does feel love, even if just for 2 people in her whole life.

She has often risked herself to save Malekith, while Malekith has often put her in danger on purpose.
This is because Malekith does realize that she is also at fault for his fallen condition, but Morathi has actually saved Malekith a few times even after securing her position as future leader of the Drichii, if he died.

The most disturbing thing about morathi is, that even though she is a cruel and brutal witch, with schemes beneath schemes and the traitorous tenacity of a snake; she is still also a mother, with just enough humanity that you may somewhat empathize with her.

Morathi is my favourite Witch archetype character, because she not only had a reason to become a Witch (she could see the fall of the Old Ones and the invasion of Chaos before it happened, but none of the Elves would listen to her), but also because she still remains quite "human" even after becoming Warhammer's version of the Wicked Queen.

[Voxrox]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Voxrox:

Malekith is her prop. As the last son of the great Aenarion, he gives HER legitimacy as well. She just uses him for her own selfish desires. She ruined his life, corrupted his path, is ultimately responsible that the great hero of the Elves fell to darkness, got his body burned, murdered millions of his kin...

She loves him? Yes, like one of those mothers that dress up their little girl and force her on these despicable mini miss beauty pagents...or those that declare their son has a super illness so they can feel like that poor, caring mother plagued with caring for her oh so ill little son all day...

For Morathi, Malekith is just that: A means to an end, her toy to use and dress up as king to fight all the evil in the world - the Elves of Ulthuan mostly ...

Not entirely true. Before Aenarion left her on his final trip, she actually started to love him, and she alwyas actually loved malekith because he is the result of her union with Aemarion.

Morathi is twisted and cold, but she does feel love, even if just for 2 people in her whole life.

She has often risked herself to save Malekith, while Malekith has often put her in danger on purpose.
This is because Malekith does realize that she is also at fault for his fallen condition, but morathi has actually saved Malekith a few times even after securing her position as future leader of the Drichii, if he died.

The most disturbing thimng about morathi is, that even though she is a cruel and brutal witch, with schemes beneath schemes and the traitorous tenacity of a snake; she is still also a mother, with just enough humanity taht you may somewhat empathize with her.

Morathi is my favourity Witch archetype character, because she not only had a reason to become a Witch (she could see the fall of the Old Ones and the invasion of Chaos before it happened, but none of the Elves would listen to her), but also because she still remains quite "human" even after becoming Warhammer's version of the Wicked Queen.

She thinks she loves him. It is part of her self-delusion. All of the mothers above I described genuinly think they love their kids. They don't. They love themselves as they see themselves in their kids. Or, also in Morathi's case, she just sees Aenarion in Malekith.

If she would truly love him - she would not be Morathi, Hag Queen and mudereress of millions. She would be an Alarielle-figure. But Morathi has no concept of what love really means...only what she thinks herself it means...

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Voxrox:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Not entirely true. Before Aenarion left her on his final trip, she actually started to love him, and she alwyas actually loved malekith because he is the result of her union with Aemarion.

Morathi is twisted and cold, but she does feel love, even if just for 2 people in her whole life.

She has often risked herself to save Malekith, while Malekith has often put her in danger on purpose.
This is because Malekith does realize that she is also at fault for his fallen condition, but morathi has actually saved Malekith a few times even after securing her position as future leader of the Drichii, if he died.

The most disturbing thimng about morathi is, that even though she is a cruel and brutal witch, with schemes beneath schemes and the traitorous tenacity of a snake; she is still also a mother, with just enough humanity taht you may somewhat empathize with her.

Morathi is my favourity Witch archetype character, because she not only had a reason to become a Witch (she could see the fall of the Old Ones and the invasion of Chaos before it happened, but none of the Elves would listen to her), but also because she still remains quite "human" even after becoming Warhammer's version of the Wicked Queen.

She thinks she loves him. It is part of her self-delusion. All of the mothers above I described genuinly think they love their kids. They don't. They love themselves as they see themselves in their kids. Or, also in Morathi's case, she just sees Aenarion in Malekith.

If she would truly love him - she would not be Morathi, Hag Queen and mudereress of millions. She would be an Alarielle-figure. But Morathi has no concept of what love really means...only what she thinks herself it means...

That has nothing to do with it. You can still love your kids and be a monster to everyone else.

Allarielle is also not a "clean" figure like she looks to be, since she has lovers (a harem, actually) often goes against Finubar behind his back, and ends up marrying bad boy Malekith so he can be Phoenix King, as a final act of ultimate cuckholdry to Tyrion, the guy that spent his entire life making sure Malekith could not take Ulthuan.

Morathi is indeed self-centered, but she has shown many times that she would die for Malekith, which would be completely off-character if it was not because he is her son.

She does have a twisted sort of motherly affection.
If anything, Lilleath is the ultimate political manipulator woman of the setting, as she decieves an entire people into slavery and backwardness, just so her Asrai do not get the business end of norscan swords.

You are really not being fair to Morathi's character in the lore, if you say she is just interested in Malekith as a political piece in her game of magick-sex-murder-fueled chess.

[Psychedelic Adventurer]

Originally posted by Voxrox:

She thinks she loves him. It is part of her self-delusion. All of the mothers above I described genuinly think they love their kids. They don't. They love themselves as they see themselves in their kids. Or, also in Morathi's case, she just sees Aenarion in Malekith.

If she would truly love him - she would not be Morathi, Hag Queen and mudereress of millions. She would be an Alarielle-figure. But Morathi has no concept of what love really means...only what she thinks herself it means...

This is such a confused definition.
You don’t have to be a good, kind, or even neutral being to identity with the conceptual framework of love.

Morathi is a violent and warped individual, it makes complete sense that her love for her son is so as well.

[Dr. Uncredible]

Originally posted by Psychedelic Adventurer:

Originally posted by Voxrox:

She thinks she loves him. It is part of her self-delusion. All of the mothers above I described genuinly think they love their kids. They don't. They love themselves as they see themselves in their kids. Or, also in Morathi's case, she just sees Aenarion in Malekith.

If she would truly love him - she would not be Morathi, Hag Queen and mudereress of millions. She would be an Alarielle-figure. But Morathi has no concept of what love really means...only what she thinks herself it means...

This is such a confused definition.
You don’t have to be a good, kind, or even neutral being to identity with the conceptual framework of love.

Morathi is a violent and warped individual, it makes complete sense that her love for her son is so as well.

Yeah, I don´t buy that either, "If she loved him she´d be a saint" is a very strange viewpoint.
There´s plenty of messed up mothers, they can still feel love for their offspring, even if that love might not be particularly healthy for the child.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Psychedelic Adventurer:

Originally posted by Voxrox:

She thinks she loves him. It is part of her self-delusion. All of the mothers above I described genuinly think they love their kids. They don't. They love themselves as they see themselves in their kids. Or, also in Morathi's case, she just sees Aenarion in Malekith.

If she would truly love him - she would not be Morathi, Hag Queen and mudereress of millions. She would be an Alarielle-figure. But Morathi has no concept of what love really means...only what she thinks herself it means...

This is such a confused definition.
You don’t have to be a good, kind, or even neutral being to identity with the conceptual framework of love.

Morathi is a violent and warped individual, it makes complete sense that her love for her son is so as well.

The thing is, Alarielle actually loves everybody, and as such, she loves no one in particular.
While Morathi loves nobody except her son and her late husband.

They are very much the mirror reflexion to one another, both being very calculistic and manipulative, and both being very goal oriented and emotionally stunted by the conditions of their births (Morathi was a prophet, Alarialle was born fated, neither of them could avoid it).
You may like Alarielle more because of her soft-coloured Sailor Moon aesthetic that was designed to make her the very image of the Ideal Queen (perfect regent, wife, mother, eternally moral and untainted, eternally persevering against the darkness), but the Warhammer writers were very careful in making sure she is actually not more moral or pure than Morathi, neither in sex life nor politics.

There are no good guys in Warhammer, all is twisted, which is precisely the allure of the setting.

Contrast Morathi and Alarielle with the other Elven Queen, Ariel.
It is said that Naestra and Arahan are her daughters, but the father is not Orion, they are not his daughters.
Ariel demands total faithfulness from her husband, who dies each Winter, after brutalizing the nearby humans that are actually supposed to protect the Asrai; but she herself has 2 daughters that are not his, and showed up after their union.

Morathi is not worse than Alarielle, only more direct about it.
Alarielle is not violent herself, but through intrigue, she does cause much violence, on purpose. Any sacrifice that leads to maintaining Ulthuan united, is a worthy one to her, and there is no bridge she would not cross to make it so.

Just because she is the avatar of Isha, it does not mean that she is Isha.
Neither her nor Morathi actually know what healthy love is.

[Dr. Uncredible]

Well bloody put Oliveira!

[The Coal Man]

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

No. "Loving mother" is an accurate description of Morathi. She definitely "loves" Malekith. Like, literally.

yeah but thats not what the term "loving mother" means. She takes the description to a literal point. I wouldnt really describe it as affection either, from my understanding hes just her only route to ruling 2 whole races (legitimately at least) and its beneficial to her plans to care about him and pretty much the only way to control warhammer's version of darth vader. The last person who tried to make him subservient got poisoned in a very dramatic manner and dark elves in general are obsessed with being at the top of their hierarchy.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Coleron:

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

No. "Loving mother" is an accurate description of Morathi. She definitely "loves" Malekith. Like, literally.

yeah but thats not what the term "loving mother" means. She takes the description to a literal point. I wouldnt really describe it as affection either, hes just her only route to ruling 2 whole races and its beneficial to her plans to care about him and pretty much the only way to control warhammer's version of darth vader.

Yeah, that must be why when she was actually winning, and Malekith got into trouble, she abandoned a clear victory that would have gained her the full allegiance of the Dark Elves, and a secure foothold in Ulthuan, to save Malekith...

Must be because she has no affection towards him, at all...

[The Coal Man]

If hes dead she doesnt have a real claim over the high elves anymore, just because you dont love someone it doesnt mean theres no other benefit to keeping that person alive. Without him wouldnt she have to turn the HE's into a slave race to have any control? My impression was she wanted to legitimately rule over them and Malk is here only way to do so. A foothold doesnt do any good if her little heir/King is dead because the untainted elves arent going to follow a crazy chaos warped witch.

[Gnarl]

Originally posted by Allelujah:

Sadly this is not portrayed well in game if it is indeed the case. She comes off more as a Brainwashed servant of mal then anything else.

I haven't played her in game yet, but Malekith is not a loser. He was the rightful heir to the Phoenix King, but Chaos forces twisted the minds of the council that handles ascension. He also has undergone massive trials like even going into the Chaos realms and returning.

Morathi isn't brainwashed so much as broken. Her son was the rightful heir. Her husband was the most glorious Elf ever. And her people betrayed her. In the game we don't see some of the real twisted stuff she resorted to in her quest to redeem herself, her son, and her people (including the High Elves).

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

I always understood that sentence as...being the mother of the Druchii and Malekith. I mean...it's basically all her fault, that the Dark Elves came about.

In the End TImes books about Malekith and Malus it specifically mentions that she was betrayed by the other corrupted elves, and sought power (thru corruption) to challenge them. It's all a huge tragedy. Chaos won a long time ago. If Malekith had been accepted and prepared to be the Phoenix King the Elves would have persisted and maybe saved the world another 10 thousand years. She and the others failed him, so the blame is on all.

Except Malekith. He's a good boy!

[Dr. Uncredible]

The End Times books are poorly written hogwash that GW churned out to legitimize canning the regular Warhammer franchise.
I do not consider that canon.
The whole notion that the burnt, addled psycho-tyrant that has been in constant war for millenia, slaughtering, torturing and enslaving while molding the Dark elves in his twisted image... is just a sweet misunderstood hero who the other elves were just really so mean to, and really just needs a second chance.
Is absurd. And poor storymaking.

[jonoliveira12]

Malekith is not the rightful Phoenix king, because he is rejected (at least at first) by Asuryan, the Phoenix God and royal deity of the Elven pantheon.

His only claim is that he is the son of the original Phoenix King, but the position itself is not inherited, a god decides who the Phoenix King will be.

Originally posted by Coleron:

If hes dead she doesnt have a real claim over the high elves anymore, just because you dont love someone it doesnt mean theres no other benefit to keeping that person alive. Without him wouldnt she have to turn the HE's into a slave race to have any control? My impression was she wanted to legitimately rule over them and Malk is here only way to do so. A foothold doesnt do any good if her little heir/King is dead because the untainted elves arent going to follow a crazy chaos warped witch.

She wants the Elves unified, because she does not actually want her race to go extinct, just like every other Elf.
She is actually not that different to Alarielle, except she is more violent and is not sitting in a position of legitimacy.

She actually wants the Elves to go back to their militaristic-mercantile, orderly expansionism they had under Aenarion, whom she sees a lot of in Malekith.
Combine that with Malekith being her son, and that is a huge cocktail of "emotional attachment" meets pragmatic paradigm, right there!

She is not a well-intentioned character, but she is a pragmatic one, and she does want her people to recover their ancient pride.