Cannon units are just aweful

[Lucipurr, The Silly One.]

Im not really sure how to say this but anyone else think cannon units are just complete ass? Units like empire cannon, VC carronade, dwarf cannon/bolt thrower. The only exception to these types of units is the skaven warp lightning cannon.
I find that these units just... dont work. Their job is ranged anti-large, but they never actually do enough damage to justify recruiting them. 1 unit of handgunners will and can do thousands of damage to large monsters, while a cannon may awkwardly take 500 hp off of a target.

Am i wrong? Is there something im not considering? Id MUCH rather take a AP-Ranged unit over any of those choices.

[JODEGAFUN]

Hellblaster finish of large single units much faster than any cannon (lv 9 with all buff are above 1000 dmg, not to count that you may play Baltasar). So yes cannons are to low dmg for anti large.

[funkmonster7]

Everything is tiered to a degree. Empire Cannons come early, Hellblasters come much, much later. Vampirate Carronades kinda suck, but they're all the Vampirates have for anti-large artillery. You'll want Carronades to shoot from 400 range away, whereas your Handgunners will have wait until they get to 145 range. One more unit of Handgunners won't save you from the SEM monster crashing into and through your frontline and trash your backline... That cannon/carronade/whatever can at least do some damage before they get real close.

One thing to consider in this game is animation. If the animation doesn't look like your cannons can make the shot without blowing heads off the units in front of them, they simply won't fire. On this note; Carronades suck before they're so low on the ground that you'd need them in the front row or else they'll hardly fire at all. Empire Cannons the same deal. Dwarf Cannons are good because the cannon barrel is mounted above the heads of any Dwarf ground unit, as they're short.

But you really should be using cannons to pull enemies to you, they won't sit around and let you empty your cannonball ammo at them, they'll come charging once they realize they're taking damage and not in range to retaliate.

[Andrewbh2003]

they have high range do decent vs infantry and apply constant pressure

carronades are cheaper and weaker compared to there imperial and dwarf counterparts but there also in a roster with acess to invocation of nehek and "if you go that route" spiteful shot making them land basically 100% of there hits + you also have gunnery wights

cannons have longer range meaning they will win a artilery duel against most other artilery pieces in the game so they can snipe artilery

they also force the enemy to come to you something that for example for dwarfs is invaluable

cannons cant be ignored as they will provide steady dps against whatever there shooting at over long periods of time but they also cant be focused hard as cannons are rarely the biggest threat on the battlefield

but there good to for example just have em shoot at say malekith on a dragon and then he is forced to constantly be moving cant land either or else he will take damage

overall one of the better artilery pieces in the game and a staple unit for 2/3 of the races that can field them there damage output is nothing spectacular but thats not the reason you bring a cannon

cannons are there as a versatile artilery piece that can force the enemy to act differently just by existing while being relatively cheap and available that alone is far more valuable than most equivalent artilery pieces can do

[funkmonster7]

And also, artillery shots can't be blocked. Whereas Handgunner shots can.

[NoTime]

Anti-Large and Anti-Infantry aren't always noteworthy. Those Green "Attributes" aren't always noteworthy in general.

Cannons are "Anti-Large" but don't get any bonuses against Large as seen in the unit Stats (Spearmen and Halberdiers get flat dmg bonuses vs. Large).

It's more like small attack/splash, High Accuracy and High Armor Piercing so this unit is "considered" Anti-Large but in reality they are just here for the AP.

As example the two early Art. Units for Empire Mortar and Cannon:

Big chunks of Infantry, low Armor/High Model Count (Swordmen, Orc Boyz, Clan Rats) the Mortar will shine.
High Armor/Small Model Count (Chosen, Greatword, Heavy Cav.) Cannons will shine.

If you ever find yourself in a situation where a group of chosen is charging towards you, 3 cannon volleys will bring them down to around 15-20% HP while Mortars are nearly useless.

But agreed with the Handgunner Part, they are bae for focusing monsters and large units before they even reach your army and even then they are versatile.

[Xaphnir]

Only thing cannons are half-decent at is attacking walls/gates/towers and killing cavalry.

I never really can find a way to justify their use, with the possible exception of Vampire Coast armies that aren't Necrofex doomstacks because their only other option for attacking walls/towers/gates that's not limited to 1 per faction are mortars. Every other faction just has other options that vastly outperform them.

[Wyvern]

in campaign where AI presents no real threat to your missiles and yolo rushes, cannons arent that great unless you need to counterbattery enemy arty. In MP cannons are a staple unit since they apply constant pressure, counterbattery and are good vs all non-infantry targets.

[Sneakimus]

Unless I'm doing Necrofex Doomstack spam, my VC armies usually contain one Cannon unit.

There are two reasons for this:
- Cannons are good at destroying towers and walls during sieges, and towers are sometimes a bigger threat to your forces than the actual garrison/armies within. Once you have dealt with the towers, you can Mortar the enemy force to oblivion at your leisure.
- Cannons make for good counter-batteries.

I have also found them to be good for targeting enemy cavalry and high armor elite infantry, but the main purpose to keep a Cannon unit in your army is to have an efficient solution for dealing with towers during sieges. A single unit of Cannons is the equivalent of 3-4 necrofex colossi when it comes to destroying towers, and are therefore a good budget option.

[Dakota]

Cannons aren't anti monster type of anti large, they're anti cav type of large. One cannonball will kill multiple models and rip through a cav formation. Only other thing of note is of course they massively outrange something like handgunners and so will soften up a target before it gets into range of the handgunners in which they can burst it down in a shot or two once it closes. They kinda also work for anti artillery.

I kinda like quad empire cannons sometimes just for some good saturation, but if I'm playing empire and want maximum single target damage I'm just gonna get a luminark or two and watch as each shot rips off a huge portion of the health bar.

[yojimbo1111]

I'm with you Zoey, I don't see the point in recruiting cannons since ppl with cannons have better options at equal or lower tier to kill everything. They are great at taking down walls and towers but don't get enough kills in a campaign for me to ever feel like they're the best choice.

[Darth Wadewilson]

Originally posted by Zoey:

Im not really sure how to say this but anyone else think cannon units are just complete ass? Units like empire cannon, VC carronade, dwarf cannon/bolt thrower. The only exception to these types of units is the skaven warp lightning cannon.
I find that these units just... dont work. Their job is ranged anti-large, but they never actually do enough damage to justify recruiting them. 1 unit of handgunners will and can do thousands of damage to large monsters, while a cannon may awkwardly take 500 hp off of a target.

Am i wrong? Is there something im not considering? Id MUCH rather take a AP-Ranged unit over any of those choices.

Yup. Very rarely use corronades and empire cannon. The very los issue with them is a deal breaker for me. There are always other more versatile units that fits my playstyle. Sure they might have less firepower. But it's a good trade off for me.

Only time they are useful is when you are at that particular stage of the campaign. Coz the alternatives for these are mostly higher tiered ranged units which might not be available as early.

[Inardesco]

Learn to use the units appropriately, then you'll see they actually really good.

[zefyris]

Unless I only have infantry, I'm personally way more scared of cannons and carronades than I am from stuff like hellblaster which have a relatively short range.
Cannons start picking your elite cavalry out when that cavalry 's still in its deployment zone if you're not super careful about line of sights.

[lPaladinl]

There's only one artillery unit I find truly disappointing in this game and it's the Elven Bolt Thrower.

Despite having firing modes I find that it's sub-par all around. I also find that generally the scattershot is still better than the focused shots against large targets despite the idea that the single shot is supposed to have better penetration and thus damage on tougher foes. Instead, it has less accuracy and does less DPS, especially when scattershot can hit the same target more than once.

Otherwise Artillery is great. Empire has a really good, rounded roster of Artillery. Some have wide explosions that are best used when you can get the enemy to blob up, and you can possibly hit multiple units per shot. Others are meant for targeting monsters, maybe cavalry, the direct cannonballs can also be good on infantry if you line it up right and have the shots bowl through them from front to back (but generally still not as good as the wider AoE cannons, unless maybe they are super heavy in armor.)

[wrought82]

ballista are incredible infantry killers. cannons do really well on flat ground as well.
All artillery need the enemy approaching directly at them or preferably standing still tho, especially large targets. they ar nly good at killing large if the large unit is pinned and the artillery pieces arent attacked...