Tomb Kings Ushabti

[(((Samurai)))]

Anyone else under the opinion that the Tomb Kings Ushabti summon shouldn't degrade? By the time the summoning animation is finished they've taken a noticeable hit to their health before they'll even begin to move.

[Cleftin Twain]

I am on the fence about summons in general degrading. I kinda feel like the Ushabti need a small buff in the MA department as well, so I can't say one way or the other. I can see WHY they degrade but I also feel like if the Ushabti specifically are going to be kept as degrading they should probably get a small buff to their attack so they actually do some damage when they come out.

That being said, they shouldn't be taking any hits to their health until a little bit after they've been summoned. I haven't paid much attention as I mostly just stick them in a situation where they are likely to die anyway to either shock a unit into routing or hold a unit in place for just those precious few second longer.

I guess what I'm saying is.. Definitely maybe.

[Stormsong]

Keep the degrade, but I'm of a mind that they should deal damage as part of their summoning, something as simple as coming out of the ground swinging.

[Andrewbh2003]

no... "PTSD to back when summons did not degrade intensifies"

the ushabti "air strike" is very very strong one of the strongest race mechanics in battle currently

summon it on top of "Insert expensive ranged unit you dont want to shoot here" and they wont be able to shoot for over a minute

or you can use it to pin cavalry or monsters in places by summoning them behind you

or you could get even more creative and do something else that has not been listed here

summons in general need nerfs not buffs especially not the ushabti one that is 100% free does not cost resources and you can summon it anywhere on the battlefield at any time

and if vanilla balance bothers you that much just use the "forgot the name" mod that removes the degrading from summons but vannila game needs balance and undegradable free ushabti is not balance

[Cleftin Twain]

Well if you want to be technical about it, army loses are the resource cost xD

[Andrewbh2003]

Originally posted by Bad Player AI:

Well if you want to be technical about it, army loses are the resource cost xD

well yeah but the only valuable "Loss" is tomb guard and even then...

skeletons are completely expendable bodies that are there to buy time/bog things dow/die there literally there to die

so if you consider the loss of skeletons to be a "cost" then said cost is so low that it may as well be free but yeah you are correct that there is a "cost" well i mean if you end up having to lose 5 units of tomb guard then yeah then there is a COST

[Lunos]

I feel like summons in general need a small rework. I don't think they should degrade but definitely should not be kept after a battle is over. Summon ability timers would also need to be heavily increased or capped to stop spam from abilities, especially Skaven ones. Or heck, they could just make summoned units have less HP overall. Them degrading on their own just feels like a cheap cop out.

[† Bayonetta †]

They should degrade but constantly and at much slower pace like Malus, not so sudden because that sudden drop does affact overall morale; i had few battles where because of that sudden drop i lost battles cause of army loss. Or better fix should be to have each summon on all 3 stages, and as your bar is chargeing for next stage, your summoned unit dies at the same pace so you always have that one unit of ushabti on battlefield, last one dies slowly like Malus and dont lose models before all HP for all units is gone.

[wrought82]

why do they have to degrade at all? i suppose the spell can be cheaper when they do but...why?

[Fendelphi]

If I remember right(been a while since I played TK), they only start to degrade after a certain amount of time has gone by. Most often, Ushabti "degrade" is due to crumbling, because they dont have the best leadership and you usually spawn them in the middle of a big fight or they get focused due to being a big and threatening target.

Ushabti could do with a Leadership buff(50 instead of 44) and a higher charge bonus(24 instead of 18).

[Kaaz]

Summons dont insta crumble due to summoning degredation, that takes a while to kick in. Must be leadership as ^ mentioned which you can solve by summoning them in better locations.

[DecayWolf]

Overall I think they're extremely OP in early game and overall small battles.
However, late game with more elites on the battlefield and combats 40v40+, they're next to completely redundant.

I think whatever TK should be able to summon, stats and duration, should be based on our army strength.
CA already has a calculation for this, it's how it's decided who won/lost the battle, and when the enemy will shatter/desintegrate and run away.

So really, I think it needs a rework.

[DecayWolf]

Originally posted by Kaaz:

Summons dont insta crumble due to summoning degredation, that takes a while to kick in. Must be leadership as ^ mentioned which you can solve by summoning them in better locations.

Yeah, if you summon units surrounded, they will not only start with very low or even negative LD, which means they'll take damage, but also they'll not gain their charge bonuses.
Ushabiti has kinda poor stats, so charging in, really helps for their initial damage output.

[MoridinuK]

I'm afraid having used summons on other armies I'm with the OP, the Ushabti takes SO long to turn up and the timer does seem to run from my click on from them arriving on the field.

Also the leadership malus you get when they die or degrade can be bad, at the same time their charge on the back of my enemy line has save a battle or two too early game..

I used to play with non degrage mod but removed it. Skaven can be tough enough without 4-5 summoned units in you back yard not despawning, but knowing they will degrade makes me ignore them rather than deal with them.. (As HE)

Not all races get as Summons so I figured the mod may be unbalancing the game but it's not really all that well balanced anyway...

I did feel the degrade was a cheap easy way out of the situation. No one thinks they should remain after the battle.

I don't know how I'd fix it, maybe just make the timer longer...

[Lenny]

End of the day, summons are just another type of damage spell with additional utility in that they can disrupt missile units and block enemy movement. Compared to other spells they are strong already.

Ushabti summons seems to be a literal match winner all game through, comparable to a sub-optimal wind of death but free. They're fine.

[(((Samurai)))]

Originally posted by MoridinuK:

I'm afraid having used summons on other armies I'm with the OP, the Ushabti takes SO long to turn up and the timer does seem to run from my click on from them arriving on the field.

Also the leadership malus you get when they die or degrade can be bad, at the same time their charge on the back of my enemy line has save a battle or two too early game..

I used to play with non degrage mod but removed it. Skaven can be tough enough without 4-5 summoned units in you back yard not despawning, but knowing they will degrade makes me ignore them rather than deal with them.. (As HE)

Not all races get as Summons so I figured the mod may be unbalancing the game but it's not really all that well balanced anyway...

I did feel the degrade was a cheap easy way out of the situation. No one thinks they should remain after the battle.

I don't know how I'd fix it, maybe just make the timer longer...

Either don't have the degrade start until they can move, or just make it so they can move right away.