Are war wagons actually useless?

[[W]harf]

How do you guys make them work, if even?

I think they are neat, but I wont use them in multiplayer if thats ture.

[elkapp]

War wagons are ♥♥♥♥ in every situation.

The standard one is a mystery how it got approved to be in the game. I don't think i need to list all it's problems.

The mortar variant is not bad by itself, but is ♥♥♥♥ compared to the standard mortar. Now, i don't play MP so i don't know all the prices, but i think the 2 are not so different in prince, and while the war wagon mortar can move, the lack of fire at the ground make it terrible.

The ROR variant is the only one decent, since it's shots penetrate, so in an ideal case what you could do is, when 2 melee infantry units attack each other, come to the side and basically maximize you penetrating damage. But that don't always work in SP since the war wagon can get easily caught by enemy cav and it's melee stats are ♥♥♥♥, so i guess in MP is 10x worse (plus, as all chariot units, is weak af against focus fire, expecially against guns since you can't dodge them).

[Edifier]

They are only good at Rank 9 with all buffs for them. But that just makes them "Good" and any decent army will wipe them out.

The mortar type and the Rocket storm one are still viable.

Almost any other ranged unit will perform better.

[Garatgh Deloi]

No idea about multiplayer, but from my single player experience id say they are rather useless, they combine being bad chariots with being bad ranged units (a buff on either field could make them a viable unit).

Id rather go for pistoliers/outriders if i want mobile ranged units that can also be useful for shock and awe by charging units in the back.

The mortar version can be useful if you want mobile artillery (the need of such a thing depends a lot on your army setup), the regiment of renown version is viable.

[Darth Wadewilson]

Originally posted by Uncle Price:

How do you guys make them work, if even?

I think they are neat, but I wont use them in multiplayer if thats ture.

I hAve only found the mortar ones to be useful. But then again why not get the actual mortar it's much better. The standard one is also decent but it's something that's only required in a fast moving army. But for empire such army would mean mostly cavalry. Huntsmen is the only infantry unit that fulfils the role of an agile unit. But it's not that good. I can hardly see why an empire player would use it other than for thematic purposes. And again that's not really that great a theme either. Even with all the buffs there are certainly better options for every purpose fulfilled by the wagons. I really don't know why they did all those variants either. Did they run out of units in empire roster?

[Kameh]

The only useful War Wagon is the ROR Hellblaster one. A hellblaster volley gun that can be easily moved to flanking units?

YES PLEASE

[Andrewbh2003]

not true

standard wagons got a big buff i believe it was the warden and the paunch

they lack the burst damage of outriders and other missile pieces but they have much better sustained damage over time and are more survivable

there not meta by any means but are decent now at least

[Sn3z]

They sit in between handgunners and outriders, you need calvary to protect them which Empire can do easily, so the bonus is that if your line breaks these things can skirmish and shoot or they can shoot into cavalry, handgunners are vulnerable if line breaks and outriders can only shoot forward. So I guess if you go for a more mobile type army WW are technically a good choice just don't get alot max two(and monitor them I haven't used them since the buffing). I don't know why you would use the mortar one know..

[A.Pot]

Hit and run. Use them to flank the sides and rears of slow moving heavy infantry forces and keep shooting.

You might be thinking, what about Outriders? They can do the same job, but War Wagons can fire at enemies behind them so they are paired well with Pistoliers or Knights in case the enemy tries to chase them with their own fast moving units.

Personally though, I prefer the Mortar variant where its mobility makes it valuable when fighting groups like Skaven in the campaign.

[wrought82]

thx clean forgot about war wagons, now i need to revisit my empire army comps^^
war wagons will beat outriders by a fair margin - not the end all comparison but significant. the low speed means they play more like infantry missile skirmish but they are very good at that.
they also have enough charge to be useful in melee with enough micro

i dont see myself using outriders except in very niche army comps. war wagons defo have a place

[Imposter]

They can be used to support your cavalry, or swing around a line to shoot the enemy in the back.

I used them with Wulfhart campaign, they aren’t too terrible.

Hell blaster volley variant, is just good.

It’s also good to be chased by infantry with war wagons, not only do they cause decent damage but it can draw deadly infantry away, and chase the wagons.

[zefyris]

they're pretty good at snipping important targets now. you want them to fire at characters while keeping their distance rather than firing at infantry and the like.

[Ewalden]

In single player campaign I've found war wagons mildly useful for pulling enemy units into kill zones. I've also used them as chariots against low quality enemies, after the enemy units have been fixed in melee by my infantry.

Don't get me wrong, they are not all that good, but if one really wants to try them out some use can be found for them, in the same way any army might improvise with what it got. An improvised use is rarely superb, but it can help win a battle.

Lastly, if one are tired of always using the same units over and over again, they do let you shake things up a bit and try doing something new.

The most improvised use I've had was having two normal War Wagons just babysit a couple of cannons in a battle against the vampire counts. They would shoot at the bats as they got close, and when they charged the artillery crew the wagons charged the bats. The AI pulled the bats out of the engagement and they got shot by the gunners in the War Wagon again.

That is of course very specific, a one time fluke. It does not mean they are good, but doing something different for a battle was fun.

--- To long, didn't read? ---

The only reason to use War Wagons as I see it is spicing things up for the sake of not doing the same old over and over again.

[ignomike]

For me they can be ok if you can spare the micro but you'd get much better returns spending that micro time on casters/cav/flanking. The biggest problem is that I just find them boring. Not enough impact for the effort required and in campaign you rarely need the mobility.

I'd like to see them given a little more speed and tankiness, then they might have a niche as a hard to deal with pest that forces you to commit to them or take attrition the whole fight.

[Wyvern]

In single player theytr probably useless because you dont need to kite vs the idiot ai and just want sheer volume of fire, which all other empire gun units do better.

In mp all variants are great for slow kiting, providing solid damage overtime without risk of model bleed like on outriders. Mortar wagons are arguably a must use in some matchups and blacklions are amazing if used correctly.

[Ewalden]

Not needing them to kite is sort of true, but thinking about it, not needing and not doing is to completely different things. Also Pistolers, Outriders or War Wagons enables one to get in some early damage long before hand gunners and crossbowmen can fire.

Potentially one can do good damage to one or two elite infantry units before they even have a chance of even approaching your infantry.

Not that your artillery doesn't do a better job.

Yes, I agree, one does not need to, and there are better options in single player, but simply for the point of doing something different, using them can be fun.