Strength In Numbers

[Sn3z]

I'm curious does anyone actually bother with this tech. I just don't ever see a reason why you would use it.

[Zane87]

If you use clanrats as a cheap frontline (instead of stormvermin or plague monks) on an otherwise friendly-fire heavy build, then this tech makes a lot of sense. Because that way, your clanrats running away the moment a warpfire stream hits them doesn't have an effect on the morale of your actual troops.

If you don't use clanrats or if you do care about the health of your clanrats (how unskaven of you) then this tech doesn't do much but for the not-so-niche missile-centric skaven armies, it can help quite a bit.

[Sn3z]

Originally posted by Zane87:

If you use clanrats as a cheap frontline (instead of stormvermin or plague monks) on an otherwise friendly-fire heavy build, then this tech makes a lot of sense. Because that way, your clanrats running away the moment a warpfire stream hits them doesn't have an effect on the morale of your actual troops.

If you don't use clanrats or if you do care about the health of your clanrats (how unskaven of you) then this tech doesn't do much but for the not-so-niche missile-centric skaven armies, it can help quite a bit.

Well I guess it work in that sense but the issue is I find myself is caring about clan rats.(because of upkeep) and where skaven are heading their higher tier armies typically do not want to be friendly firing.

The real way I think it would be useful is if your transitioning from pure slave armies and just completely embrace it, so clan rats would be the new slaves essentially but the issue there is doing it if you have say 3-4 stacks of slaves, there's is a really big jump in upkeep from slaves to clan rats(why I think slaves could do with a upkeep increase) SV then become what clan rats are to slaves and you would use them niche(perhaps SV upkeep could also be looked at)

[Zane87]

Originally posted by Sn3z:

Originally posted by Zane87:

If you use clanrats as a cheap frontline (instead of stormvermin or plague monks) on an otherwise friendly-fire heavy build, then this tech makes a lot of sense. Because that way, your clanrats running away the moment a warpfire stream hits them doesn't have an effect on the morale of your actual troops.

If you don't use clanrats or if you do care about the health of your clanrats (how unskaven of you) then this tech doesn't do much but for the not-so-niche missile-centric skaven armies, it can help quite a bit.

Well I guess it work in that sense but the issue is I find myself is caring about clan rats.(because of upkeep) and where skaven are heading their higher tier armies typically do not want to be friendly firing.

The real way I think it would be useful is if your transitioning from pure slave armies and just completely embrace it, so clan rats would be the new slaves essentially but the issue there is doing it if you have say 3-4 stacks of slaves, there's is a really big jump in upkeep from slaves to clan rats(why I think slaves could do with a upkeep increase) SV then become what clan rats are to slaves and you would use them niche(perhaps SV upkeep could also be looked at)

I mean, as far as I understood expendable it only prevents morale losses to non-expendable units. Other expendable units still get the morale hits including morale chain routing.

So pure expendable (slave) armies never really did much to prevent chain routing or the morale hits (leading Lords aside). They just worked because they are cheap walls of meat.

If you however use a midgame shooter army and expect friendly fire, then Clanrats with expendable can work a bit better than stormvermin if they rout, but they rout much faster as well. If you treat them as pure tarpits being few seconds of time, then it's a good trait.

Or if you make mixed Clanrats/monster armies, so the monster don't get morale debuffs. That's the only thing I can imagine though

[jonoliveira12]

I honestly do not get why anyone would use Clanrats anyway. For meat shields, Skavenslaves do it cheaper, and Stormvermin do it better.
You can just easily get away with Skavenslaves most of the game, until you get enough income to just replace them all with Stormvermin.

Clanrats are kind of a useless unit, in my opinion.

[Kyso4ek]

I cant notice the effect of this tech so for me it is negligeble however the stat buffs are ok i suppose.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

I honestly do not get why anyone would use Clanrats anyway. For meat shields, Skavenslaves do it cheaper, and Stormvermin do it better.
You can just easily get away with Skavenslaves most of the game, until you get enough income to just replace them all with Stormvermin.

Clanrats are kind of a useless unit, in my opinion.

The thing about skavenslaves is that they have so much worse stats, including leadership, meaning they will buckle and run before their job as a tarpit is done when against strong enough armies.
Clanrats at least can get somewhat decent stats(more health per model, better melee stats and damage, better leadership) and will hold off enemy chaff(and even win a lot of those fights). And while they do have higher upkeep than slaves, it is still a low price, especially compared to Stormvermin.

[Sn3z]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

I honestly do not get why anyone would use Clanrats anyway. For meat shields, Skavenslaves do it cheaper, and Stormvermin do it better.
You can just easily get away with Skavenslaves most of the game, until you get enough income to just replace them all with Stormvermin.

Clanrats are kind of a useless unit, in my opinion.

I disagree with SV, they are just not meatshields the upkeep is far to high to using them in this way and wholesale replacing will cripple your ability to field more stacks, they are a excellent foundation though to work in more niche infantry units or use monsters(friendly fire depreciates over the course of T1-T5), so clan rats make for a great stop gap in preparation for SV but I suppose can be skipped. These skaven armies are more about utilizing a lot of different types of units though.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

I honestly do not get why anyone would use Clanrats anyway. For meat shields, Skavenslaves do it cheaper, and Stormvermin do it better.
You can just easily get away with Skavenslaves most of the game, until you get enough income to just replace them all with Stormvermin.

Clanrats are kind of a useless unit, in my opinion.

The thing about skavenslaves is that they have so much worse stats, including leadership, meaning they will buckle and run before their job as a tarpit is done when against strong enough armies.
Clanrats at least can get somewhat decent stats(more health per model, better melee stats and damage, better leadership) and will hold off enemy chaff(and even win a lot of those fights). And while they do have higher upkeep than slaves, it is still a low price, especially compared to Stormvermin.

Yep thats it, generally i'd just rush Clanrats with shields and they are already a pretty decent front line, There have been far too many times i'd think ''meh'' skavenslaves will do and they always end up routing after taking the initial charge then losing most of my backline, With Clanrats just those extra stats makes it feel like a big difference especially leadership being Skavenslaves having 35 to the Clanrats 45 though rather small makes the gap feel quite noticeable in combat

Stormvermin are alright their just rather costly and the research to improve them is rather far down the skill tree whilst the Clanrat research is almost immediately accessible, Just going through the research tree now and can see even skaven slave research doesnt add much stat changes mostly just Recruit and Upkeep cost

[Sn3z]

Its possible stat inflation make Expendable worthless so I guess the tech then fails at its job anyway. What I think CA should do is take away the stat bonuses to clanrats and give -% upkeep to clan rats and make it a prerequisite tech to Growth Vats, this along with maybe nerfing upkeep on SV to make SV a more an attractive prospect. Also any tech which buffs clan rats could be replaced or made side techs.

[Dregora]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

I honestly do not get why anyone would use Clanrats anyway. For meat shields, Skavenslaves do it cheaper, and Stormvermin do it better.
You can just easily get away with Skavenslaves most of the game, until you get enough income to just replace them all with Stormvermin.

Clanrats are kind of a useless unit, in my opinion.

The thing about skavenslaves is that they have so much worse stats, including leadership, meaning they will buckle and run before their job as a tarpit is done when against strong enough armies.
Clanrats at least can get somewhat decent stats(more health per model, better melee stats and damage, better leadership) and will hold off enemy chaff(and even win a lot of those fights). And while they do have higher upkeep than slaves, it is still a low price, especially compared to Stormvermin.

Ironically their stats at first aren't that much worse at the beginning and they're like 4x as cheap. Yes you can buff up clan rats, but at the time they're at a decent level, you already have access and money to better units. It can even go as far as you not needing a frontline at all and instead just do it with 3/4 heroes + your lord to hold everything back long enough.

That and menace from below + a lord that can summon is generally more than enough. You can make clan rats work sure, but there are just better options, both early and late game.

[Garatgh Deloi]

In my humble opinion:

Clanrats main worth is that they can be buffed. If you spend the points on the red line for them they end up almost equal to Stormvermin when it comes to just holding the line (but they are still considerably less killy, Stormvermin can also be buffed, but those buffs tend to up their killyness rather then their holding the line ability).

If you don't plan to spend the points in the red skill line, its likely (but not always) better to use way more Skavenslaves instead (even with the supply lines modifier you can likely still get a extra army of Skavenslaves cheaper then 1 army of mostly Clanrats). Since the upkeep difference is so large.

I myself prefer to utilize buffed Clanrats over Skaveslaves or Stormvermin, they hit a good middle ground between being able to tar pit almost as good as Stormvermin but being way cheaper. That said, i do have to spend 4 extra skill points on my lords for this.

[Kaaz]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

In my humble opinion:

Clanrats main worth is that they can be buffed. If you spend the points on the red line for them they end up almost equal to Stormvermin when it comes to just holding the line (but they are still considerably less killy, Stormvermin can also be buffed, but those buffs tend to up their killyness rather then their holding the line ability).

If you don't plan to spend the points in the red skill line, its likely (but not always) better to use way more Skavenslaves instead (even with the supply lines modifier you can likely still get a extra army of Skavenslaves cheaper then 1 army of mostly Clanrats). Since the upkeep difference is so huge.

I myself prefer to utilize buffed Clanrats over Skaveslaves or Stormvermin, they hit a good middle ground between being able to tar pit almost as good as Stormvermin but being way cheaper. That said, i do have to spend 4 extra skill points on my lords for this.

^ i use a buffed clanrat line whenever im not on skrolk (where i use a plague frontline and summons to arrow screen)

[Kyso4ek]

I like playing Queek and using his vet 6 clanrats for everyone. And with red skills on top of it.