Empire crossbow vs handguners?

[Professor Von-Wulfen ]

Hello all.
I am a huge fan of black powder units and recently replaced all my crossbow units with handguners for the AP damage.
I tend to have my missile units in front of my holding line of melee units, then fall back to the rear of the melee line once the enemy get close.
Its not always possible to then flank the enemy units to fire into they're rear. The crossbow units can still be effective from behind the melee line but handguners need a clear line of sight.
I was debating a mixture of both but I am now thinking I may go back to all crossbow.
Thoughts?

[TVMAN]

I use all handgunners and make sure they always have the high ground relative to my infantry, so they're always able to fire over the front line. Shooting into the enemy from above is pretty effective, so make sure you're exploiting the terrain in order to maintain line of sight on what you want dead.

[Professor Von-Wulfen ]

Originally posted by TVMAN:

I use all handgunners and make sure they always have the high ground relative to my infantry, so they're always able to fire over the front line. Shooting into the enemy from above is pretty effective, so make sure you're exploiting the terrain in order to maintain line of sight on what you want dead.

I always look at doing as you suggest but unless you get lucky with terrain you are in same position.

[enricofermi2]

In general I prefer archers to gunpowers from a gameplay standpoint. The penatly of having to find LOS for each units is usually larger than any advatage gunpowder units may have. Especially when you have lots of gunpower units each of which need clear LOS.

Stylistically though, gunpowder is cooler.

[Rui83DeathMetal]

Space the melee units enough to have some line of fire, but not enough for the enemy to get through, place your hanguners in line with those spaces, turn off the skirmish mode so they move when you tell them, and deny the risk of they get out of formation. Or high ground on your back, but that's situational.

[Ninjasquirrel]

You could leave little gaps in between your melee front line units for them to shoot thru once you retreat them behind the front line. Or just run them around to the flank. Crossbows do have longer range though. Or you can get hunters if you got money, they have bonus vs. large. Handgunners and hunters make a good mix, been using that in my wulfhart campaign and its been working out well.

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by Baron Von-Wulfen:

I always look at doing as you suggest but unless you get lucky with terrain you are in same position.

Not really? No map is entirely flat. If i don't have high ground in my starting area, then i claim it once the battle starts. Worst case you can always arrange your line in a checkerboard formation so your gunners can shoot in between your infantry.

Originally posted by enricofermi2:

In general I prefer archers to gunpowers from a gameplay standpoint. The penatly of having to find LOS for each units is usually larger than any advatage gunpowder units may have. Especially when you have lots of gunpower units each of which need clear LOS.

Stylistically though, gunpowder is cooler.

I feel like crossbows become borderline useless once you enter the late game and start encountering heavily armored units like chaos warriors. You might as well be pelting them with wads of paper compared to the amount of hurt handgunners can put out against armor.

[Just4Fun]

Space your frontline infantry out a bit and make them compact. During the clash, enemy troops encircle your troops. Handgunners can focus all their fire into the small spot between your troops.

Like:
Your frontline:
- - - - Infantry
) ) ) Handgunners/Archers behind, but inbetween spaces

Your frontline must be dense enough to stop anyone from just marching through the spaces.

[Gentlest Giant]

Just dropping this one here
https://imgur.com/a/NnQdt#uRh1OA0
Happy shootin'!

[MadArtillery]

They are more specialized for specific thinga then straight upgrades from eachother. Keep a unit or two of handgunners for targeting heavily armored elites and keep the crossbows for generalist flexibility.

[Jean-Luc]

The recent update increased the AP dmg of all xbows but slowed their fire rate. It was probably done to differentiate them more from archers and was likely prompted by archers being added to the Empire which created the need for xbows to have a different role.

Anyway, xbows are now a kind of compromise unit between bows and guns and deal better with armor.

[KingTiger78]

Originally posted by Gentle Giant:

Just dropping this one here
https://imgur.com/a/NnQdt#uRh1OA0
Happy shootin'!

You my good sir/ma'am are wonderful and I may personally finally enjoy my guns now :)

[Coldhands]

Depends on who you're fighting, but generally I find handgunners better than archers or crossbowmen. Against an enemy like the greenskins, that don't have a lot of armor, but tend to swamp their enemies with tons of melee troops, then I'll go with crossbows, because they can lob bolts over the heads of my front line and they're cheaper/easier to get.

But against any faction/army that has some armor, it's handgunners all the way. The image Gentle Giant posted in post #8 explains how to effectively use them. Making handgunners work is all about location, location, location.

[Lucius]

Alternatively, you could use outriders to make the flanking easier.

[OMG My Profile Name Does Not Fi]

Originally posted by Lucius:

Alternatively, you could use outriders to make the flanking easier.

Also I read that they can shoot over your front-lines into melee infantry. I haven't tried this myself though.

[Professor Von-Wulfen ]

Originally posted by Lucius:

Alternatively, you could use outriders to make the flanking easier.

I always use outriders, especially like the way the can pull enemy line out of an advance as they try to counter them.