How to counter blood knights as bretonnia?

[SpiffyGonzales]

And i mean like in a real PvP battle.
Bretonnia primarily relies on Hammer and anvil, So how the heck do i get my hammer past these blood knights?

XD i use bretonnia A LOT, I can out bid the potential use of Empire demis, I can set up a good offense against Dragon Princes, but there isn't a single cav (or monster) unit in the bretonnian roster with the AL and AP damage to take Blood Knights. Normally the answer would be to send in a pleb or a spearmen but DP are just fast enough to shy away from that, and cost effectivness is on enemy side regardless of Cav unit in play unless i go infantry build (laughs in peasant).

Any ideas?

[pin]

Britonnia is a horrible matchup against competent vamps. As vamps I ususally get a flying lord with summon zombies and just fly over, summon a skelly on top of britonia artillery/archers and those units are either doomed or will at least route unless britonia breaks formation to protect them. then just bring enough grave guards with some skelly spears plus some passive healing units necromancer/corpsecart/mortis engine with 2 blood knights and you are pretty much set, played right its impossible to lose.

[What Up Doc]

General Skarr eredeti hozzászólása:

What Up Doc eredeti hozzászólása:

um its not realy a massive investment seems they are used in other engagments, as long as your just picking off the vamps bits and peices at a time and make sure you wipe the unit out so they cant regen it it works fine. the point of somthing as expensive as blood knights is that it takes something else very expensive to counter them. wouldnt make sense if a top tier unit had a cheap counter to it....

thats 3500 v 1700, more than twice the cost. if anything thats two blood knights who then beat both the hyps and the grails with ease

uh i dont think your understanding me properly. so the idea is have louon on a hipo and then a hipo knight force, drop on the blood knights to pin them in place so the blood knights dont get the charge of on grail knights. then, charge your grails or questing knights into the blood knights. that combo means your grails get a full charge of on blood knights that are standing still. blood knights with no charge arnt that big a threat. and if you realy are a great PM player you should know that it isnt just a cost vs cost thing. its about what threats you can eliminate easily. yes you might put 5 or 6k cost into killing one blood knight, but if you kill it with only a couple casualties and minimal damage, its a win, cause now you still have most of that 5 or 6k worth or troops left over.

[SpiffyGonzales]

What Up Doc eredeti hozzászólása:

General Skarr eredeti hozzászólása:

thats 3500 v 1700, more than twice the cost. if anything thats two blood knights who then beat both the hyps and the grails with ease

uh i dont think your understanding me properly. so the idea is have louon on a hipo and then a hipo knight force, drop on the blood knights to pin them in place so the blood knights dont get the charge of on grail knights. then, charge your grails or questing knights into the blood knights. that combo means your grails get a full charge of on blood knights that are standing still. blood knights with no charge arnt that big a threat. and if you realy are a great PM player you should know that it isnt just a cost vs cost thing. its about what threats you can eliminate easily. yes you might put 5 or 6k cost into killing one blood knight, but if you kill it with only a couple casualties and minimal damage, its a win, cause now you still have most of that 5 or 6k worth or troops left over.

Yes but if they spend that same cost to go and buy two blood knights, those hippos will be destroyed, and assuming they put the knights on the same side they would then have you on two sides. they may lose one unit but you will have lost twice as much in gold costs. I know its not a gold v gold thing, but im saying that if what they are doing is more cost efficient, it gives them the ability to create a more flexible army

[What Up Doc]

dear god.... alot of the cost of a vamp unit is its abilitiy to regen... if you deny that its no longer worth that much, hit them fast hit them hard so they cant regen, and if your getting out caved as bretonia your doing something wrong.... if they manage to out cav you, then you should have the air advantage, if they have the air advantage then you should have cav advantage... also lore of life, hipo knights can often take 2 thirds of their health in damage with maybe loosing one model, often not loosing a model at all, then just pop a regrowth... im also a huge fan of bretonia and they are fine in the vampire match up as long as you bring plenty of knights. forget the front line and the archers, archers are to hard to get good value VS vamps cause their inf is either low value or heavily armoured and sheilded (grave guard), so bring a line of mobs and keep kiting them backwards which pulls the vamps out of possition, buy your time and you will find a good time. as long as you out cav them and keep pulling them apart, they cant win the cav fight aslong as you set it up to be over and done with quickly before they can swamp you with trash inf and slow you down

Edit: another reason i say forget the archers and front line is vampires are to good at swarming to be able to get realy good value out of them

[SpiffyGonzales]

What Up Doc eredeti hozzászólása:

dear god.... alot of the cost of a vamp unit is its abilitiy to regen... if you deny that its no longer worth that much, hit them fast hit them hard so they cant regen, and if your getting out caved as bretonia your doing something wrong.... if they manage to out cav you, then you should have the air advantage, if they have the air advantage then you should have cav advantage... also lore of life, hipo knights can often take 2 thirds of their health in damage with maybe loosing one model, often not loosing a model at all, then just pop a regrowth... im also a huge fan of bretonia and they are fine in the vampire match up as long as you bring plenty of knights. forget the front line and the archers, archers are to hard to get good value VS vamps cause their inf is either low value or heavily armoured and sheilded (grave guard), so bring a line of mobs and keep kiting them backwards which pulls the vamps out of possition, buy your time and you will find a good time. as long as you out cav them and keep pulling them apart, they cant win the cav fight aslong as you set it up to be over and done with quickly before they can swamp you with trash inf and slow you down

which is EXACTLY why i posted this. CA literally made a unit that bretonnia has no defense against, and not only is it not just a monster, it's a full on CAVALRY unit. And its not just powerfull, it is literally the EXACT thing bretonnian cav should fear. It is a heavily armored large unit that is anti large, unbreakable, and has just enough in its AP that bretonnian cav lose against it.

Also this is vamps we are talking about, blood knights beat ALL bretonnian large, air advantage means nothing against them. They have all the AL in the world so air charging them could potentially be more costly to you than to them.

And once again, i am talking aganst an experienced Vamp player, or even just a decent one. How are you going to kite them with weak infantry when they know your infantry is garbage? You keep talking about out caving them, but i would like you to name a single unit of cav that actually beats blood knights. Or some tactic that isnt either easily avoidable or not effective against them. And yes i would genuinly love to hear it because i love bretonnia and i want this to be a good matchup again, but ever since BK got introduced its almost funny that people consider it a good matchup for bretonnia anymore.

[What Up Doc]

General Skarr eredeti hozzászólása:

What Up Doc eredeti hozzászólása:

dear god.... alot of the cost of a vamp unit is its abilitiy to regen... if you deny that its no longer worth that much, hit them fast hit them hard so they cant regen, and if your getting out caved as bretonia your doing something wrong.... if they manage to out cav you, then you should have the air advantage, if they have the air advantage then you should have cav advantage... also lore of life, hipo knights can often take 2 thirds of their health in damage with maybe loosing one model, often not loosing a model at all, then just pop a regrowth... im also a huge fan of bretonia and they are fine in the vampire match up as long as you bring plenty of knights. forget the front line and the archers, archers are to hard to get good value VS vamps cause their inf is either low value or heavily armoured and sheilded (grave guard), so bring a line of mobs and keep kiting them backwards which pulls the vamps out of possition, buy your time and you will find a good time. as long as you out cav them and keep pulling them apart, they cant win the cav fight aslong as you set it up to be over and done with quickly before they can swamp you with trash inf and slow you down

which is EXACTLY why i posted this. CA literally made a unit that bretonnia has no defense against, and not only is it not just a monster, it's a full on CAVALRY unit. And its not just powerfull, it is literally the EXACT thing bretonnian cav should fear. It is a heavily armored large unit that is anti large, unbreakable, and has just enough in its AP that bretonnian cav lose against it.

Also this is vamps we are talking about, blood knights beat ALL bretonnian large, air advantage means nothing against them. They have all the AL in the world so air charging them could potentially be more costly to you than to them.

And once again, i am talking aganst an experienced Vamp player, or even just a decent one. How are you going to kite them with weak infantry when they know your infantry is garbage? You keep talking about out caving them, but i would like you to name a single unit of cav that actually beats blood knights. Or some tactic that isnt either easily avoidable or not effective against them. And yes i would genuinly love to hear it because i love bretonnia and i want this to be a good matchup again, but ever since BK got introduced its almost funny that people consider it a good matchup for bretonnia anymore.

i literaly told you how to counter them. not every unit in the game needs another unit that can counter it one on one, by your logic the new dread saurian unit should have something else in the game that beats it one on one. also, why would mortal humans be able to beat a blood knight? you beat the blood knights by ganging up on them.

i think we just have to agree to disagree, bretonia is my most played faction in both multi and campaign and i havnt had any major problems vs vampire counts, the matchup i find hardest is vampire coast because of the cheap cannons to kill cav and cheat anti large AP chaff units.

not every one can be good with every faction, i suck at chaos, cant make them work for ♥♥♥♥ but they are a good faction, maybe your just not a bret player, your play style might be more infantry focused and less mass movemtn and micro focused.

[ϺEƳEƦ]

General Skarr eredeti hozzászólása:

Darth Alpharius eredeti hozzászólása:

Grail Knights

Grail knights lose heavily against blood knights, especially after update.

Grail Knights are rounded, Blood knights are specifically anti large with decent anti armor damage.

What changed in this patched that effected this match up? I wasn't able to fined a change to either unit.

[pin]

1.Flying lord with zombie summon and invo
2 mounted necro with regen and zombie summon
2 blood knights
5 graveguard with shields
4 skelly spearmen. can be swapped with others

all within regular 12400 cost for MP

mounted necro ride with blood knights to zombie tarpit (total 21 casts)

have fun as brits

[SpiffyGonzales]

What Up Doc eredeti hozzászólása:

General Skarr eredeti hozzászólása:

which is EXACTLY why i posted this. CA literally made a unit that bretonnia has no defense against, and not only is it not just a monster, it's a full on CAVALRY unit. And its not just powerfull, it is literally the EXACT thing bretonnian cav should fear. It is a heavily armored large unit that is anti large, unbreakable, and has just enough in its AP that bretonnian cav lose against it.

Also this is vamps we are talking about, blood knights beat ALL bretonnian large, air advantage means nothing against them. They have all the AL in the world so air charging them could potentially be more costly to you than to them.

And once again, i am talking aganst an experienced Vamp player, or even just a decent one. How are you going to kite them with weak infantry when they know your infantry is garbage? You keep talking about out caving them, but i would like you to name a single unit of cav that actually beats blood knights. Or some tactic that isnt either easily avoidable or not effective against them. And yes i would genuinly love to hear it because i love bretonnia and i want this to be a good matchup again, but ever since BK got introduced its almost funny that people consider it a good matchup for bretonnia anymore.

i literaly told you how to counter them. not every unit in the game needs another unit that can counter it one on one, by your logic the new dread saurian unit should have something else in the game that beats it one on one. also, why would mortal humans be able to beat a blood knight? you beat the blood knights by ganging up on them.

i think we just have to agree to disagree, bretonia is my most played faction in both multi and campaign and i havnt had any major problems vs vampire counts, the matchup i find hardest is vampire coast because of the cheap cannons to kill cav and cheat anti large AP chaff units.

not every one can be good with every faction, i suck at chaos, cant make them work for ♥♥♥♥ but they are a good faction, maybe your just not a bret player, your play style might be more infantry focused and less mass movemtn and micro focused.

No, you said hippos and grails, I said two Bks beat hippos and grails. You are putting words in my mouth, I am NOT saying it needs a 1 on 1 thing to beat it. I AM saying that if bretonnias entire cav force is negated because a single unit of blood knights can kill off a Grail, a Peg, and then half of a royal peg, that the match is easily tipped to the vamps favor. Your strategy was neither cost efficient nor would it have killed the unit in question.

Also i MAIN bretonnia. i have four hundred hours in game and i would easily attribute half of it to just this faction.

[SpiffyGonzales]

pin eredeti hozzászólása:

1.Flying lord with zombie summon and invo
2 mounted necro with regen and zombie summon
2 blood knights
5 graveguard with shields
4 skelly spearmen. can be swapped with others

all within regular 12400 cost for MP

mounted necro ride with blood knights to zombie tarpit (total 21 casts)

have fun as brits

My point exactly.

[What Up Doc]

lol thats cute, one blood knight does not beat all of that, lol, you might need to re read what i wrote, the effectivness of that combo is how its played. and lol i got 1500 hours in this game, about 800 of that in multi, so please, dont play the hours game with me

edit: also just because you main betronia doesnt mean your suddenly amazing at them. i main empire in campaigns but i dont play great with them

[SpiffyGonzales]

What Up Doc eredeti hozzászólása:

lol thats cute, one blood knight does not beat all of that, lol, you might need to re read what i wrote, the effectivness of that combo is how its played. and lol i got 1500 hours in this game, about 800 of that in multi, so please, dont play the hours game with me

I already tested it multiple times.

[RED /(Weber)\]

Darth Alpharius eredeti hozzászólása:

Grail Knights

[SpiffyGonzales]

RED Floyd /(Weber)\ eredeti hozzászólása:

Darth Alpharius eredeti hozzászólása:

Grail Knights

Lose against blood knights.

[What Up Doc]

just cause you tested it doesnt mean thats the be all and end all, a tests vs actualy game play is 2 different things, vampire coast inf losses vs most things but its still realy good for what its actualy meant for