Fate of Bjuna and Purple Sun

[funkmonster7]

I heard that they are good, and I finally got to test them out (I'm usually not a fan of the Lore of Death aside from the debuff spells). I'm a bit confused about Fate of Bjuna... Is it a more potent version of Spirit Leech, except designed to heavily damage multiple models in a single unit?

I also heard that Purple Sun is good. But what's the difference between Purple Sun and Flamestorm from the Lore of Fire, or any wandering vortex spell? I'm generally very careful about using those as I don't want that vortex swimming directly into my units instead, is there a way to use these spells more 'safely'?

[Pzyclopz]

Safest way to use vortex spells is either if the enemy is clumped up for some dumb reason before they get to your troops, or gathered up around one of your units, either one you have designated as cannon fodder, or one with rather high magic resis/armour. Either low-count units or single entities.

[yoda gaming]

Yeah, fate of bjuna is made for units with multiple models on it while spirit leech is only strong against single entities, if im not mistaken purple sun is better against less armoured units while flamestorm is better against armoured units

[Andrewbh2003]

as a rule you want spirit leech vs anything with under 45 models and bjuna for anything higher than 45 models "if the unit is a standard cav unit with exacly 45 models then it depends really as bjuna will do more damage but is more expensive and wont actually kill models while spirit is cheaper and while does less damage overall it will actually KILL the models in the unit"

[yuzhonglu]

Get Pit of Shades (Shadow) if you can. Soooooooo much better then those annoying moving vortex spells from the other schools.

Once you start using Shadow magic you'll see how much superior it is to Death or Dark. And against armored troops Shadow is better then Fire.

[yojimbo1111]

Depends on unit scale too. Death does not do enough damage to be as effective as fire and shadows on untra unit scale

[RadCon One]

Originally posted by andrewbh2003:

as a rule you want spirit leech vs anything with under 45 models and bjuna for anything higher than 45 models "if the unit is a standard cav unit with exacly 45 models then it depends really as bjuna will do more damage but is more expensive and wont actually kill models while spirit is cheaper and while does less damage overall it will actually KILL the models in the unit"

45 is still a bit high for spirit leech. I probably wouldn't do anything above 12 -16, e.g. small groups of monstrous infantry.

[Dakota]

I've still been finding Bjuna's way overpriced for what little it does when I compare it to something like the massive killing potential of something like a pendulum that costs around half the magic to use. Sure it's easy to get on target and isn't dodged, but the damage potential is rather pathetic when I could be getting a much bigger affect from other powers for that price. It's gotten a load of nerfs over the years, along with spirit leech, but now it just seems death magic is pretty garbo compared to some of the other lores.

Purple Sun's a way more expensive flamestorm that lasts less time but is I think better against armor or more damaging. It's kinda like chain lightning and banishment.

[Andrewbh2003]

Originally posted by Entropy:

Originally posted by andrewbh2003:

as a rule you want spirit leech vs anything with under 45 models and bjuna for anything higher than 45 models "if the unit is a standard cav unit with exacly 45 models then it depends really as bjuna will do more damage but is more expensive and wont actually kill models while spirit is cheaper and while does less damage overall it will actually KILL the models in the unit"

45 is still a bit high for spirit leech. I probably wouldn't do anything above 12 -16, e.g. small groups of monstrous infantry.

nope at 45 models both bjuna and spirit do around the same damage per wind of magic spent

also for elite cav units like dragon princes for example spirit leech is "arguibly" better as it will actually KILL models instead of spreading the damage and since races like high elves and empire have abundant acess to healing killing models is arguibly more important as you cant heal whats already dead "unless your a undead race but thats a exception"

[Empiro]

Originally posted by andrewbh2003:

Originally posted by Entropy:

45 is still a bit high for spirit leech. I probably wouldn't do anything above 12 -16, e.g. small groups of monstrous infantry.

nope at 45 models both bjuna and spirit do around the same damage per wind of magic spent

also for elite cav units like dragon princes for example spirit leech is "arguibly" better as it will actually KILL models instead of spreading the damage and since races like high elves and empire have abundant acess to healing killing models is arguibly more important as you cant heal whats already dead "unless your a undead race but thats a exception"

45 also seems high to me. Spirit Leech tends to overkill against individual low-hp models, meaning that you end up doing less damage than expected.

[Prisoner 76561197992841073]

chicken bhuna m8 lov it

[Lady MacBeth]

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

Get Pit of Shades (Shadow) if you can. Soooooooo much better then those annoying moving vortex spells from the other schools.

Once you start using Shadow magic you'll see how much superior it is to Death or Dark. And against armored troops Shadow is better then Fire.

Depends on content your playing too. Pit of shades is terrible in multiplayer (generally) where as fate of byuna can be really good to use on elite troops.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Empiro:

Originally posted by andrewbh2003:

nope at 45 models both bjuna and spirit do around the same damage per wind of magic spent

also for elite cav units like dragon princes for example spirit leech is "arguibly" better as it will actually KILL models instead of spreading the damage and since races like high elves and empire have abundant acess to healing killing models is arguibly more important as you cant heal whats already dead "unless your a undead race but thats a exception"

45 also seems high to me. Spirit Leech tends to overkill against individual low-hp models, meaning that you end up doing less damage than expected.

Basically it's 132 damage per tick on large setting, you wanna be using it up against whatever has at least 3 models and if you want it killing stuff the health per model must be under 132. So using it on some very low hp cheap cav is bad, but pop it against dragon princes and you'll take 7 models a cast.

Honestly feels kinda lacking when I put it like that, where in a best case scenario it takes out 7 models of a unit, or around 15% of them, guess it does mean that over time if you cast it like 7 times or so you'll kill one squad that's more valuable than the caster, but the opportunity cost of what those winds of magic could have done seems too great.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Ming:

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

Get Pit of Shades (Shadow) if you can. Soooooooo much better then those annoying moving vortex spells from the other schools.

Once you start using Shadow magic you'll see how much superior it is to Death or Dark. And against armored troops Shadow is better then Fire.

Depends on content your playing too. Pit of shades is terrible in multiplayer (generally) where as fate of byuna can be really good to use on elite troops.

One of the combos I like in multi as empire is Markus and a shadow caster with pendulum. Just see some expensive cav try and charge some line, net them in place, the pendulum comes down, and there goes over half the HP on two or more units. Net or mass locking combos with wind spells I find pretty effective even in multi, and otherwise I find buffs paired up with the right units can be worth a lot more than direct damage spells.

Like for example if I'm playing tomb kings and have a casket and give it smiting the additional damage that provides over the duration of the cast is more than a spirit leech, or if I'm in a melee fight timewarp, death frenzy, flaming sword, etc, not to mention debuffs like brittlebones and whatnot can leave elite enemy troops with zeroed out melee stats while my units mulch through them. I've been finding it hard to justify direct damage spells in my loadouts, direct damage abilities or items are fine though.

[yuzhonglu]

Originally posted by Dakota:

Originally posted by Ming:

Depends on content your playing too. Pit of shades is terrible in multiplayer (generally) where as fate of byuna can be really good to use on elite troops.

One of the combos I like in multi as empire is Markus and a shadow caster with pendulum. Just see some expensive cav try and charge some line, net them in place, the pendulum comes down, and there goes over half the HP on two or more units. Net or mass locking combos with wind spells I find pretty effective even in multi, and otherwise I find buffs paired up with the right units can be worth a lot more than direct damage spells.

Like for example if I'm playing tomb kings and have a casket and give it smiting the additional damage that provides over the duration of the cast is more than a spirit leech, or if I'm in a melee fight timewarp, death frenzy, flaming sword, etc, not to mention debuffs like brittlebones and whatnot can leave elite enemy troops with zeroed out melee stats while my units mulch through them. I've been finding it hard to justify direct damage spells in my loadouts, direct damage abilities or items are fine though.

But in Single Player, where you're running around with the most cost efficient (aka crappiest but still winnable) army you can field, direct damage spells are the way to go.

'Cuz when you're fielding swordsmen against Black Orks or skeletons against Saurii, it's not like buffing them is gonna help.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

Originally posted by Dakota:

One of the combos I like in multi as empire is Markus and a shadow caster with pendulum. Just see some expensive cav try and charge some line, net them in place, the pendulum comes down, and there goes over half the HP on two or more units. Net or mass locking combos with wind spells I find pretty effective even in multi, and otherwise I find buffs paired up with the right units can be worth a lot more than direct damage spells.

Like for example if I'm playing tomb kings and have a casket and give it smiting the additional damage that provides over the duration of the cast is more than a spirit leech, or if I'm in a melee fight timewarp, death frenzy, flaming sword, etc, not to mention debuffs like brittlebones and whatnot can leave elite enemy troops with zeroed out melee stats while my units mulch through them. I've been finding it hard to justify direct damage spells in my loadouts, direct damage abilities or items are fine though.

But in Single Player, where you're running around with the most cost efficient (aka crappiest but still winnable) army you can field, direct damage spells are the way to go.

'Cuz when you're fielding swordsmen against Black Orks or skeletons against Saurii, it's not like buffing them is gonna help.

If I'm doing single player though then I'm just gonna be using wind and vortex spells rather than direct damage since the AI's not that great at dodging those.

Also I tend to like my armies to be a lot of crappy stuff but with a handful of elites or specialists, keeps the cost down and the effectiveness up. That said, debuffing would be what you do vs elite troops, they're not so scary without their armor, melee attack, or melee defense, once again assuming I'm not just hitting them with a pendulum or something the moment they engage with my line.