Moridin learns TWWII, Previously: Newbie needs some Alith Anar help (Vortex)

[MoridinuK]

So I completed my first game as Maz on easy.

It was difficult for the first few turns until I got into the swing of crashing my Saurus into everything and then steam rollered into the end.

So I decided I was ready for something harder and a bit more interesting so I picked Alith Anar the angriest High Elf.

I also stepped up to Normal/Normal wahoo, I've read so many people playing on legendary and seeming to have fun so I figured I should move up.

I'm on almost turn 50 and oh my word, how on earth do I cope?

I quickly took the first province as I realised I needed to push out my assassin guys as quick as I can. Taking that was no trouble but holding it?

I'm at war with the Sentinels to the north, Rictus to the south, and Har Ganeth just declared on me.

I've one full stack (Alith) with a noble (I got for free and am priming for fighting +replenishment) 4 shadow-walkers, eagle, 4 spear, 4 archers (la) 3 lothian sea guard with shields and a princess with just 3 lothian sea guard units to help my rubbish garsion should they get attacked.

I have taken the province to the south, But Rictus who have been beat up by both me and Naggarond (they took out the other Kar faction that was there) is down to two province one is the vault province I need.

Rictus has hit me with a plague and now marches two stacks towards my mostly dead guys, I'm just so frustrated by this and by the AI always knowing where my armies are.

I can't beef up the other army I can't afford it, I only got it out of desperation. There is just no way I can be everywhere I need to be to land a finishing blow on Rictus or the north via attrition and my assassin got all the way to the south to kill the dude in charge of pirates just to see the elf faction down there do it! I needed that 10k!

So like I said, I'm a couple of turns of turn 50, I've not managed to get the Shrine of Khaine, the high elves are all trading with me, and I have two provinces just starting to develop.

I've no idea if I'm doing ok or rubbish and I don't know whether to push on to Kill Rictus or not (if there is much left once this plague has passed!!)

Really need some advice! I fear my enemies get stronger while I run about not being able to expand, just defending what I've got?

[⊱⋛⋋God_Wing⋌⋚⊰]

the highelf faction is some of the strongest armies next to the skaven and some other factions it seems you are in a bit of trubble i am not the best player myself yet but i do know that if you want to win a lot of fights you need a lot of sisters of avalon they are the best unit in the highelf army it is a great army to defend with aswell but then again i am not the best player at this game i only have a little over 400 hours in the game but if you want a few more tips then feel free to add me and i'll help you as much as i can

[MoridinuK]

Thank you, but I've not even got high enough in the tech tree to recruit sisters of avalon...

I lost this game. Clan Rictus sent out three stacks in three directions any one was easy to destroy but I could only kill one, he took settlements and then I took them back by then Cult of pleasure was taking parts of Ulthuan itself and Naggarond declared war and moved up 4 stacks complete with hydras, I couldn't get my 100% ambush chance to work and they overwhelmed me easily.

It was no use I had lothain sea guard against some pretty wicked looking DE kit... I think I may quit rather than try again, I can't see how on earth I can fight on all sides on my own...

I tried to use influence (I had loads all the time) to get them to war with each other but they wouldn't I could make them hate each other so much but couldn't get the DE to fight one another...

I fear it's a lost cause...

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by MoridinuK:

I'm on almost turn 50 and oh my word, how on earth do I cope?

I quickly took the first province as I realised I needed to push out my assassin guys as quick as I can. Taking that was no trouble but holding it?

I've one full stack (Alith) with a noble (I got for free and am priming for fighting +replenishment) 4 shadow-walkers, eagle, 4 spear, 4 archers (la) 3 lothian sea guard with shields and a princess with just 3 lothian sea guard units to help my rubbish garsion should they get attacked.

You have way too little stuff for turn 50 especially considering its on normal.

The way the game works is pretty much you want to be as aggressive as possible as early as possible.

Being defensive does not work at all (compared to games like civ for example). You want to pretty mcuh stack up on units in the first like 5 turns and then immediately go to war and wipe out an adjacent faction.
Also spellcasters carry super hard in the early game. If you have a Legendary Lord with spells that is what you should put points into. Having an early spellcaster is invaluable.

Attacking is way better. If you attack the AI will defend making it unnecessairy to have armys defending your own settlements. In addition if 2 of the adjacent factions to you hate each other you can gain favor with one of them by killing the other making you again safe from being attacked.

The only issue is how fast you can get artillery to take down walls - as soon as the AI gets better units to defend with walls are a real problem without artillery and magic - but early on it should be no problem because the AI doesnt really have anything on normal difficulty.

You should always be killing someone all the time in the game. It really is "Total war".

[yojimbo1111]

Yeah I think the plan should be capture your region then wipe out rictus asap. Much easier said than done.Try to avoid getting ambushed and do the ambushing. Shadow walker spam is great in auto-resolve.

[Barser]

Alith anars army should just be filled with shadow walksers imo, since he gets 50% upkeep for them, and they really good for that price.

They are great at kiting, and even good in melee.

[Lain]

you could try using ambush bait tactics, you said you had a secondary lord right
fill up anar's army and leave the secondary lord with nothing or very minimal
put anar's army in ambush and have the other lord stand right on top of anar's ambush

ai 8/10 times will see that lone lord and go for it. walking right into an ambush

My guess is once you have torn apart a few armies you'll be able to proceed in taking some land or sacking/razing

[Honor Guard]

Well to explain some things

Alith anar's personal army is a ambush master (You can get him to the point it is 100% Ambush chance)
Your faction has stalk stance overall (Stupidly good on the offense,Lets you ambush a army on a normal attack)
Now alith anar's army,Some will say shadow walkers only (Not bad,they have AP) but I suggest some frontline units (spearmen,seaguad or such) and removing the eagle after a bit (It is nice and all but not worth it after a bit)
you want to be semi aggressive (Semi = not too much) while you also want to try to confederate with some people on the Donut for extra income (I suggest trying to get Tyrion first,guy will be a pain otherwise)

[MoridinuK]

Thank you for the help.

I really did try to play aggressively and am very disappointed with my performance on this difficulty level... It is not even HARD is it?

I push fast to clear out the first province and then got stuck with the forgebound (I was trying to get to the rats early. His stack was too strong vs mine (when in a settlement) and I couldn't lure him out. Maybe I should try the trick with a lone lord or something.

I'd love to be able to fill Alith's army with shadow-walkers and try dealing with all that micro management, I do fear the affect of cavalry on it though, but at 1100 a unit and 3600 + 2 turns for the camp and 2 turns to recruit them that's what 10 turns if money was no object (which it isn't!)

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

You have way too little stuff for turn 50 especially considering its on normal.

The way the game works is pretty much you want to be as aggressive as possible as early as possible.

Being defensive does not work at all (compared to games like civ for example). You want to pretty mcuh stack up on units in the first like 5 turns and then immediately go to war and wipe out an adjacent faction.
Also spellcasters carry super hard in the early game. If you have a Legendary Lord with spells that is what you should put points into. Having an early spellcaster is invaluable.

Attacking is way better. If you attack the AI will defend making it unnecessairy to have armys defending your own settlements. In addition if 2 of the adjacent factions to you hate each other you can gain favor with one of them by killing the other making you again safe from being attacked.

The only issue is how fast you can get artillery to take down walls - as soon as the AI gets better units to defend with walls are a real problem without artillery and magic - but early on it should be no problem because the AI doesnt really have anything on normal difficulty.

You should always be killing someone all the time in the game. It really is "Total war".

So I start with just one minor settlement, I can zap the rest of the province easily enough but it's what to do then, I'm not good enough in battle to take on risky fights and win and I've no money in this situation, the settlements are too far apart for one army to protect them all at once too. Essentially I think I hang back too much for sure, and am too afraid to run a deficit.

I can try again without that.

Artillery is a level three slot so I'm ages away, I mean I start with a minor on level 2 once it grows I could put in artillery or the camp for shadow walkers? I pick up the rest of the province it's all level 1 and needs upgrading. I have the option of going north (deadwood senitnals over the water) or south (forgeound then rictus) but Ricturs sometime eats forgebound as quickly as I do Kar Karond...

Spellcasters are a long way off, but I hate the rats dumping that lighting on me!!

I've got to play the elves like a WARGHHH and just fight like mad huh?

Originally posted by Honor Guard:

you want to be semi aggressive (Semi = not too much) while you also want to try to confederate with some people on the Donut for extra income (I suggest trying to get Tyrion first,guy will be a pain otherwise)

Yeah I'm getting this balance of semi very wrong!

Originally posted by BURN HERETIC:

you could try using ambush bait tactics, you said you had a secondary lord right
fill up anar's army and leave the secondary lord with nothing or very minimal
put anar's army in ambush and have the other lord stand right on top of anar's ambush

ai 8/10 times will see that lone lord and go for it. walking right into an ambush

My guess is once you have torn apart a few armies you'll be able to proceed in taking some land or sacking/razing

I HATE sacking/razing the cost to colonise later is sooo annoying! But money is good, I guess I should be prepare to be a wrecking ball more?

I think I need a second lord sooner than I do, I just want to preserve that 500-900 income when I have it so I can develop the provinces, but that's no use if I just lose them later!

[MoridinuK]

I have a save back on turn 23, where I hold my first province and one minor in the province to the south.

I may try again from there but that still sounds too slow... Forgebound still exist in one settlement, my stack is about to hit one of rictus's heartlands, and I've just got trade with the whole donught, so I can start that second lord. I'm tempted to try to peach the forfebound and take rictus out behind them but I'm sure they will hind my heartlands too tempting if left undefended..

I'll lose that extra province to rebels but I can't reach them anyway. I could raise the lord there, but I don't think they would buff the 3 spears 2 archers enough to take on a skaven stack of 10 units (rebels)

I'm not sure I save much coming back here that I couldn't do better if I started again from scratch BUT it's something...

[MoridinuK]

So, it seems I really suck!

I took out the deadwood sentinels and have no problem winning battles with Alith, but my second stack (which is only spears and archers LA) gets wiped, maybe it was the battle I was defending on a bridge map but the deadwood sentinels suddenly had all sisters of slaughter, 3 odd heros, and 3 units of repeater bolt throwers... i have nothing to reach them with.

I managed to blob up the infantry on the bridge but the bolt throwers and heros broke my line way before my archers could wipe stuff up...

Meanwhile Alith has taken out rictus.. if I can get to the cities...

[kekkuli]

You should've taken half of the continent by turn 50 on normal :/ To me it just sounds you are way too passive.

[MoridinuK]

I'm trying to fight more often. my 'passivity' is due to being held in place by threats from multiple places, my garrisons can't see off a full stack. I do understand how to do the battles, hammer's, anvils, shooting in the back etc... But I definitely don't have big enough armies.

I also wasted some time, swapping out Alith's spears for lothian sea guard with shields, But even though I only have a few provinces I am still strength rank3-5 (depending on how beat up my armies are)

I AM defiantly too cautious, I get attached to units and not want them to die, I tend to want to wait to refill before moving on. This I'm working on.

But I am definitely coming up against enemy troops my tier one can't handle and my buildings an econ can't support my own.

I did go back to turn 23 in my first campaign, and defo I may do one more restart, as by turn 20 I think I should have more.

But if I take your comment literally, I've no idea how I could take half a continent by turn 50! That's like a settlement every two turns when would you ever refill? Or stop to rebuild?

I'm also a newbie, so for example, if you know the deadwood province you can fiugre out how to take it fast, but I sat there expecting to not be able to move from settlement to settlement.

I do wish it were easier to see the results of movement, how far can I get on my next turn if I move to x (before I do).

I also did totally mess up that bridge battle...

So basically yes, don't play like an elf, play like a crazy blood letting demon, or a wargh... just fight fight and fight, and don't worry about people sacking my towns?

I'll watch some more legendary vids, try to get more tips...

[kekkuli]

Just focus on getting strong armies asap (lots of growth and income) and steamroll the game. Sisters only require a T4 settlement for example and they basically trivialize anything that the AI has to throw on you on normal. Conquer in logical order and don't take provinces you will have hard time defending/getting public order up. Don't start stupid wars and go defensive/military alliance with everyone in early game only to get dragged to some wars you don't want.

[gnomad]

just two tips that seem relevant

first one is concerning ai knowing where your armies are. thats true and certainly frustrating but there is a trick where you can take 'ambush' stance even if youre not actively trying to ambush someone and this effectively erases your army from the ai detection so you can lure them in thinking the province is unguarded. especially useful if you take the ambush stance somewhere near your settlement with weak garrison which is a prime target. the ai attacks the settlement and your army pops out of ambush to reinforce the garrison. it really doesnt matter what your ambush chance is since the rate is calculated only if they enter your ambush range for the ambush itself. until then youre invisible and it really doesnt matter if the ambush fails and even if they retreat when they detect you since theyre already lured and have wasted movement points so you can actually catch up

second, you can merge units which have taken serious hits. you lose veterancy of the other unit but hey, sometimes its faster and more important to get back into fighting form asap opposed to just waiting for them to replenish

[MoridinuK]

Originally posted by kekkuli:

Just focus on getting strong armies asap (lots of growth and income) and steamroll the game. Sisters only require a T4 settlement for example and they basically trivialize anything that the AI has to throw on you on normal. Conquer in logical order and don't take provinces you will have hard time defending/getting public order up. Don't start stupid wars and go defensive/military alliance with everyone in early game only to get dragged to some wars you don't want.

Only a tier 4 I haven't managed to get to tier 4 yet!

Sigh and my latest attempt to play harder and faster fell apart.

I had taken my starting province by turn 7 then the deadwoods by turn 15, but Har ganeth and Rictus declare war, and aghol... Crone jumped in to help Deadwoods, sent a stack to back up their last stack, between them that was 5-6 characters... no way I hold against them with just Alith and spears and archers, one eagle and one shadow warriors... :(

I have a second army, but it;s just spears and archers...

HAr Ganeth at the same time stomp and take one of my provinces and as I move my new army to take it back there is a full skaven stack in the way, no problem for Alith and his ambush but for my army of tier 1 it seems doomed...

I just can't make this work, if I move faster than I did it's over too soon. I'm running a high defict but can't trade with the Ulthan because the one dude I know about hates me!

Conquer in logical order? but i'm surrounded by people who hate me (this is why I tried to turtle)
I have DeadWood to the north, Har Ganeth to the NorthWest, Forgebound south, Rictus South, Narggord West of there, and cult of pleasure south west.

Maybe I was just unlucky that har ganeth came in when they did (halfway through stomping deadwood.

Really struggling to see a strategy... :(

Originally posted by gnomad:

just two tips that seem relevant

first one is concerning ai knowing where your armies are. thats true and certainly frustrating but there is a trick where you can take 'ambush' stance even if youre not actively trying to ambush someone and this effectively erases your army from the ai detection so you can lure them in thinking the province is unguarded. especially useful if you take the ambush stance somewhere near your settlement with weak garrison which is a prime target. the ai attacks the settlement and your army pops out of ambush to reinforce the garrison. it really doesnt matter what your ambush chance is since the rate is calculated only if they enter your ambush range for the ambush itself. until then youre invisible and it really doesnt matter if the ambush fails and even if they retreat when they detect you since theyre already lured and have wasted movement points so you can actually catch up

second, you can merge units which have taken serious hits. you lose veterancy of the other unit but hey, sometimes its faster and more important to get back into fighting form asap opposed to just waiting for them to replenish

Thanks gnomad,

My problem is trying to be in 3 different parts of the map at once, the Ambush stance slows my movement, but I could try, this is more relevant if I back off being uber aggressive as suggested.

Yeah I do try to hold on to units, I even sometimes hide them on the battle map if I need to move on asap, maybe cheaper upkeep and replacing them is better.

I do wish I could figure out a time to stop ALith running about for 2 turns and recruit more shadow warriors. The invastion from har Ganeth only worked because my second army was stuck between turns recruiting a unit and couldn't move to assist...

Maybe this is just much much harder than I'm capable of, I'm pretty sure I could manage other challenges...