Let's talk about Skeggi again.

[chubbyninja89 (TNB)]

I was just going going to call this discussion something like Why Skeggi can work, but I just thought I'd have fun with the discussion name, since I've talked about the Lustrian Norsemen a couple of times before.

But I still do think that Skeggi is one of those factions that could really be fleshed out with just a little effort on either CA's part or if a modder was willing to flesh them out themselves. Plus, it'd be a nice way for CA to not only add something on to say sorry for Norsca taking so long, but it could allow them to give us a different take on the Norscans.

And that's what I really believe Skeggi could bring to the table, not a completely, but rather, a new take on a Norscan faction.

There are several obvious things that could be done to make Skeggi stand out from the Old World Norscans, such as changing up their roster up a bit, since anyone could guess that there wouldn't be tons of Mammoths, Ice Wolves, and Frost Wyrms running around Lustria.

Not to mention that they could easily come up with a few units aside from the existing mostrous units like Hydras, Cold Ones, and the rarer Carnosaur, who should also be the highest mount for Skeggi Warlords.

New Skeggi Units
Marauders of Skeggi (Norscan Champions riding Cold Ones)
Skeggi Jungle Fighters (Marauders who have Vanguard Deployment)
Skeggi Jungle Hunters (Norscan Javelin Hunters with Vanguard Deployment)
Jungle Trolls (Trolls that are found in Lustria)

Units stolen from other factions
War Hydras (Dark Elves)
Feral Cold Ones (Lizardmen)
Feral Carnosaur (Lizardmen)
Phoenix (Stolen from High Elves)
Sun Dragon (Because dragons are awesome)

Mix that in with a few existing Norscan units like War Wolves and Skinwolves, as well as your basic Norscan units, and you'd have enough to easily make them different from their old world cousins.

There could also be a way or two that they could tie in both the OW Norscans and Skeggi together as well.

[General Plastro]

How to make Skeggy work.

Add the Amazon (the old 2d and 3rd edition) units to them ,which include some of your "stolen units" ideia.

We would have Zarabatana ranged infantry, Jungle/Temple Watch, Serpent Sorceresses, Native spearwomen (akin to Medieval 2's native american spear infantry), along the assorment of domesticated Lustrian fauna.

Reskin all Skeggy units to be actually more "native american" instead of norsemen, as they are in the lore.

Done!

The Skeggy are the main host for amazonian recruits (with the Estalian/Tilean colonies being the second option), i think that would work.

[Firaeveus Carron]

It's nice to see support for this topic again, I guess.

While my stance on implementing Skeggi has not changed that much (I'm not entirely against it, but I don't see it happening because they would essentially be Norsca with a few units added and / or changed around), Skeggi could be a plausible addition if CA decides to consider more minor factions after the third game is released. I can see Middenland, Kislev, Mousillon and Skeggi being potential candidates.

As General Plastro suggests, having Amazons worked in with Skeggi could be a huge tipping point.

As I mentioned in a previous thread of yours on the Skeggi, the Skeggi starting position would definitely need to be overhauled, but they made drastic campaign map overhauls to fit the Wood Elves in, so it can work. It needs to be overhauled because the Skeggi have no where to go with Mazdamundi starting right beside them and at war with them. CA is not going to change that because of their own created narrative about Yucannadoozat (spelling?) fighting off the Skeggi, who were causing trouble in and around Hexoatl. In Total War: Warhammer II, the Skeggi essentially serve no purpose other than to be fodder for Mazdamundi, based on the narrative. The Skeggi need more land and more opportunities to expand in order for them to become playable, but I don't know how CA would go about doing it. Currently, Skeggi can either hide in their settlements, flee from their landmass via sea, or push through Mazdamundi and the New World Colonists, or die in a few turns – the latter being the most common scenario.

[jamjarzalpha]

I think phoenix's and sun dragons are pushing it. They're too elvish.
Normal fire dragons and doomfire dragons would suffice. (They already exist in Warhammer and would be simple reskins)
I'm undecided on hydra's but the other monsters are good choices.

Personally I'd like Skeggi to be their own playable Norsca minor faction.
With their own legendry lord but similar units.
Basic reskins of Norsca units, painted warriors rather than warriors wrapped in fur.
And different Monsters and |Monster hunts as you describe.

I don't want them to be massively different from Norsca though. I just don't think there's enough there to make it different enough from regular Norsca for them to justify charging for it. So better keeping it similar and easier to make and just releasing it for free. Use it to win themselves back some trust.

[jamjarzalpha]

I think the start point's fine though. So long as they only have 1 legendry lord.
It might be a difficult place to start, but it's a good place to have a new power, it'd add extra variety to campaigns. And maybe they'll be able to act as a counter to the dark elves naval supremacy as well.

[Ysthrall]

Hmm. Nice idea. The amazons might actually work in that context.

I have to agree with jamjarzalpha, the dragon and pheonix are a step too far....

They don't have a very good starting position though....

[Firaeveus Carron]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jamjarzalpha:

I think the start point's fine though. So long as they only have 1 legendry lord.
It might be a difficult place to start, but it's a good place to have a new power, it'd add extra variety to campaigns. And maybe they'll be able to act as a counter to the dark elves naval supremacy as well.

The start point isn't fine though, not saying that it can't be changed. It's nothing like Bretonnia–Bordeleaux–Carcassone, Vampire Counts–Von Carstein or Wood Elves–Argwylon. Each of these faction pairs do not start off at war with one another and there is no narrative binding them to be at war with one another. However, these factions can engage in war with one another if they choose.

Hexoatl and the Skeggi are different, as they are bound in a war with one another from the start in Total War: Warhammer II because of CA's own created narrative involving Yucannadoozat, Madzamundi, Hexoatl and the Skeggi. The story literally sets up the Skeggi to be fodder for Mazdamundi / Hexoatl. You can read it online.

This narrative and the confinement of their start location are the only things, in my mind, preventing the Skeggi from ever being playable. Discussing the roster and discussing how their start position could feasibly be adjusted to make them playable are the most important discussions to be had in this thread, in my personal opinion.

[jamjarzalpha]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Firaeveus Carron:

Hexoatl and the Skeggi are different, as they are bound in a war with one another from the start in Total War: Warhammer II because of CA's own created narrative involving Yucannadoozat, Madzamundi, Hexoatl and the Skeggi. The story literally sets up the Skeggi to be fodder for Mazdamundi / Hexoatl. You can read it online.

I can't read it online, it fact most of my searchs with total war and skeggi as keywords lead me to forum posts left by the OP.
Care to drop me a link?

In anycase I still don't have a problem with the start.
It'd be difficult to start at war with Lizardmen but I think they're embracing having start positions of varying difficulty anyway.
It'd be harder. when starting as Mazdamundi, having to fight a legendry lord but not much harder and it was going to get harder anyway when the Norsca update comes and Skeggi have some decent troops.

[Firaeveus Carron]

Sure, I'll edit this response once I find it.


https://dashboard.totalwar.com/home/widget/theforkedtongue

You might have to sign in to Total War Access to read it.

[Firaeveus Carron]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jamjarzalpha:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Firaeveus Carron:

Hexoatl and the Skeggi are different, as they are bound in a war with one another from the start in Total War: Warhammer II because of CA's own created narrative involving Yucannadoozat, Madzamundi, Hexoatl and the Skeggi. The story literally sets up the Skeggi to be fodder for Mazdamundi / Hexoatl. You can read it online.

I can't read it online, it fact most of my searchs with total war and skeggi as keywords lead me to forum posts left by the OP.
Care to drop me a link?

In anycase I still don't have a problem with the start.
It'd be difficult to start at war with Lizardmen but I think they're embracing having start positions of varying difficulty anyway.
It'd be harder. when starting as Mazdamundi, having to fight a legendry lord but not much harder and it was going to get harder anyway when the Norsca update comes and Skeggi have some decent troops.

It's not a major issue for singleplayer campaigns I suppose, but it would be a dreadful matchup in a head-to-head campaign as Hexoatl and Skeggi.

Just playing as Skeggi with your opponent being someone else in a multiplayer head-to-head campaign would be brutal enough by having Mazdamundi right next door. You would start off slow and be at an extreme disadvantage for quite a while. Not that CA cares about multiplayer anyways.

[jamjarzalpha]

Well I read it, but I don't think it matters much. It only mentions warmblood raiders, it doesn't mean Mazdamundi has to start at war with every Norsca faction. And it's not like the 2 factions would be friends for long anyway.

The only change that would need to be made would be making the Skeggi faction start with one settlement. And give the other 2 to a seperate minor faction with the same troops (who would start at war with Mazdamundi)
When playing as Skeggi, the first move would be to try and conquer the New World Colonists to complete your province, while Mazdamundi tried to kill the other Norsca faction to complete his province. Seems fair.

As Skeggi you could also just not fight Mazdamundi, sail up to Naggaroth and make a home there, the chaos corruption wouldn't hurt Norsemen.
You could even change it so the Legendry lord started up there (having been hunting hydras) but was betrayed by his kin, like Skarsniks start.

I really don't think it'll make things all that much harder though. I never had much trouble killing off Mannfled early when I played as Vlad.
There's plenty of variety in how difficult different lords starts are. So that's surely already a part of multiplayer.

[Dacryphilia]

Remove the entirety of Skeggi and replace their roster with either amazons or Sisters of Sigmar and you have my full support.

[Firaeveus Carron]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jamjarzalpha:

Well I read it, but I don't think it matters much. It only mentions warmblood raiders, it doesn't mean Mazdamundi has to start at war with every Norsca faction. And it's not like the 2 factions would be friends for long anyway.

The only change that would need to be made would be making the Skeggi faction start with one settlement. And give the other 2 to a seperate minor faction with the same troops (who would start at war with Mazdamundi)
When playing as Skeggi, the first move would be to try and conquer the New World Colonists to complete your province, while Mazdamundi tried to kill the other Norsca faction to complete his province. Seems fair.

As Skeggi you could also just not fight Mazdamundi, sail up to Naggaroth and make a home there, the chaos corruption wouldn't hurt Norsemen.
You could even change it so the Legendry lord started up there (having been hunting hydras) but was betrayed by his kin, like Skarsniks start.

I really don't think it'll make things all that much harder though. I never had much trouble killing off Mannfled early when I played as Vlad.
There's plenty of variety in how difficult different lords starts are. So that's surely already a part of multiplayer.

Nawh, it mentions Skeggi specifically after a while – they are the warmblood raiders.

However, your betrayal / Skarsnkik proposal sounds nice.

[jamjarzalpha]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Firaeveus Carron:

Nawh, it mentions Skeggi specifically after a while – they are the warmblood raiders.

Yeah, I got the reference.
But it doesn't mention Skeggi by name at all.
It's from a Lizardman perspective so it's always 'warmblood'. It references their evil tattoo's to make sure you can work out who they mean, but that's it.
Mazdamundi mentions the 'khanx'. Which the internet tells me is a suffix applied to all the younger races names in the Lizardman language.
Dwarfs are "Dro'ka'khanx", elves are "Itz'xa'khanx" and humans are "Xho'za'khanx".

Still splitting what is now Skeggi into 2 factions solves that, Mazdamundi only need start at war with one of them. The settlement of Skeggi is in a different province from Hexoatl.

I've always thought Naggaroth needs a non-dark elf legendry lord to even things up a bit. Skeggi has just become my favorite candidate for that.
I agree that's the better of the 2 idea's for start point.

[Firaeveus Carron]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jamjarzalpha:

But it doesn't mention Skeggi by name at all.

It doesn't have to, because there's this:



"... the Warmbloods were waiting for him.

'Chasos scalf rak Skeggi!' shouted a large specimen. They were ugly creatures, devoid of scales, coated in pinkish flesh with symbols of the Ancient Enemy carved into them."


Page 6

[jamjarzalpha]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Firaeveus Carron:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jamjarzalpha:

But it doesn't mention Skeggi by name at all.

It doesn't have to, because there's this:



"... the Warmbloods were waiting for him.

'Chasos scalf rak Skeggi!' shouted a large specimen. They were ugly creatures, devoid of scales, coated in pinkish flesh with symbols of the Ancient Enemy carved into them."


Page 6

I think he just meant he wanted to buy a scalf rack in Skeggi.

Must have missed that line.