Witch elves and Sisters of slaughter any good ?

[The Hand]

They seem like they die way to quick for their tier am i missing something ?

[Andrewbh2003]

i mean sisters are very tanky if used properly the only downside is the low armour but beyond that they just never die

witch elves are glass cannons and are very fragile they are a support unit used to pin stuff in place with there madness of khaine atribute so they are not a frontline unit

[The Hand]

are they worth it for thier price and tier ? I play on very hard and every now and then i like to get a few of each for morathi cause i feel it kinda fits and i thought they would be decent for how long it takes to get.

[Brenil]

They're ambush troops that are best used flanking the main line. Hide them behind a hill, in a forest, behind cavalry, use them once the battle is already joined and they'll clean up. If they get targeted by cavalry or ranged, they'll die.

[Red Bat]

Sisters are used to hold up melee units and nothing else. They suck at surviving arrow fire for obvious reasons, making them a hyper specialized meatshield unit.

Witch Elves are used for flanking, wiping out weak archer units in the rare occasions they can get close enough to do so, killing weak units very quickly, killing other units listed as "damage dealers", and sometimes wiping out certain large units if they are able to avoid being charged into.

Witch Elves are a lot less useful on higher difficulties without some type of unit buff so I rarely used them in campaign. Helps that I almost never play Dark Elves which means I rarely use them by default.

[The Hand]

ok thanks ill keep that in mind and see how well it works with my shades and shields how many sisters do you suggest for a front line i've only ever used them a lil but when i saw the defender i figured them and shade would be nice and hearing sisters are glass cannons im guessing they mix in well too so maybe 2 Witch elves and 3 or 4 sisters ?

[The Hand]

also how well does that dodge come into play for the say charging the firing line ?

[Green Raven]

As some of the others said, the Sisters excel at holding the line. Mind, they aren't good at actually winning a battle, but they can make a melee line last forever. You need some cav to circle round and land the blow.

Witch Elves... you only recruit those when nothing else is available.

[Red Bat]

Originally posted by Green Raven:

As some of the others said, the Sisters excel at holding the line. Mind, they aren't good at actually winning a battle, but they can make a melee line last forever. You need some cav to circle round and land the blow.

Witch Elves... you only recruit those when nothing else is available.

To be fair you can stack some pretty beefy buffs on Witch Elves as Har Ganeth.

[Sn3z]

I don't understand the actual purpose of these units, they appear to be flanking support unit because DE get good cavalry combination, then they seem like they could be line units(I only play very hard, its really not something I would do, unless you have specific LL tailored to them). I have also tried using Sisters/WE placing them on my flanks to protect shades, instead of getting cavalry on very hard but I ran into some issues and slot problems with my army, whereby I had to just end up disbanding them as my flanks just got to bloated and it became easier just to simplify it.

If you want you could try SoS/witch Elves + Corsairs as a frontline(could be strong also with certain LL's) then swap the corsairs for Executioners that would be a solid but I would pay attention to how SoS.WE perform vs T4/T5 units as they could end up being a detriment, sometimes higher tier units can carry lower tier units in the late game but it depends on the faction but you need to be more aware of it on higher difficulties because of the AI buffs.

[yuzhonglu]

Sisters aren't worth it unless Hellebron. Then they're very good for their cost.

You can never go wrong with Shades and Darkshards.

[zefyris]

they're super strong. Just make sure to pair them with troops that can create space (as in, make the enemy ranged move away from where they are) like cavalry and chariots for example, and do'nt let them take a charge from large units.

[gachi is manly]

As a tabletop player, Witch Elves are really disappointing in this game.

In TT they're absolute terrors against anything that lacks high armor and one of the strongest core units in the entire setting in melee. In Total War they're just kinda terrible for their cost. They can be alright when buffed up a lot by Hellebron, but sisters also get buffed and tend to be more reliable at their role compared to WE.

[Andrewbh2003]

Originally posted by gachi is manly:

As a tabletop player, Witch Elves are really disappointing in this game.

In TT they're absolute terrors against anything that lacks high armor and one of the strongest core units in the entire setting in melee. In Total War they're just kinda terrible for their cost. They can be alright when buffed up a lot by Hellebron, but sisters also get buffed and tend to be more reliable at their role compared to WE.

well problem is witch elves have been nerfed in melee countless times to a point where "Yes" they are not cost-effective melee units

as corsairs sisters and executioners perform better for the cost

but the reason you use witch elves is for the madness of khaine ability and thats why witch elves have been nerfed as DE dont gain acess to any "Net" ability to pin units in place witch elves are there version of net of amyntok

so yes all there melee nerfs turned them in to a support unit that pins large units in place with madness of khaine thats how you get value of em

[Nightskies]

I just so happened to be considering this earlier today, but only the Witch Elves. So I tested them, in various scenarios, to see what they could do that Dark Riders, Executioners, Corsairs, Bleakswords, or Shades could not do better. I found the following about Witch Elves.

1. By themselves, they are outperformed by all the other choices.
They're too squishy and expensive. They're about equal with Dual Sword Shades *in melee*. While their killing capacity is good, it can't keep up with the rate others kill them- anything but meat fodder kills them faster. As another stated, Witch Elves are support melee troops, which means 1-3 per army.

2. ! They are exceptional flanking infantry !
Madness of Khaine is a very interesting mechanic- it has the effect of making the target focus on its current target. This requires explaining! Most of the attention of the attacked unit remains on the opponent it was previously engaged with. This matters- if you closely watch combat, the unit will push its soldiers to engage its target, while fighting back against any enemy that engages them. So all that squishyness of the Witch Elves is suddenly not so big a deal. Now, here is truly where the Witch Elves shine.
*The Madness makes the target easier to hit, so whatever was front engaged with the enemy will have an easier time winning in their own capacity.
*Murderous Mastery is an upgrade to Murderous Prowess that most Dark Elves get. It grants the Witch Elves the power of Fear. Since the target is already flanked by a high offense unit, Fear will frequently push them to breaking.
*If the enemy does break, the Witch Elves will make quick work of the routing unit as effectively as cavalry if they aren't tied up in melee with something else. Few can kill as many routing models as quickly as Witch Elves.

Note, to effectively use Witch Elves as flanking infantry, you don't have to use intensive micro. Simply stick them on one end of your line with a bit of space (charging distance), form them up in a group in a locked formation, and click attack the enemy. They will flank on their own. All you have to do is protect them from getting sandwiched, no pun intended.

Like most things, you can multiply their effectiveness with micro. For example, a straight fighting line limits them to 2 optimal engagement targets. Stagger the line and try to spread the engagement to individual units in separated melee and bounce around a bit to get the most of the debuff. Beat down enemy leadership with Death Magic (Aspect of the Dread Knight/Doom & Darkness). Scatter the enemy clump with spells like Chillwind- Witch Elves take advantage of that better than most thanks to their high offense, speed, and Madness of Khaine.

While Witch Elves don't match up against anything, they have some flexibility- it doesn't matter what they're flanking, they are really good at it, so long as they're working with an effective unit. In other words, if you had Executioners against some Dwarf Hammerers, flanking with more Executioners would be less effective than flanking with Witch Elves- but if you had Dreadspears against Hammerers, it would be better to bring in Executioners than to flank with Witch Elves.

3. Madness of Khaine madness
Already stated by another, the Madness of Khaine can pin down enemies like a raging saurian. This is great against shock cavalry and mounted heroes/generals that dive into your lines. Put Madness of Khaine on them, no more charge cycling.
Alternatively can be used on individual elites with a spaced out front. Make your Witches a juicy target for the elites, let them engage, withdraw to a more vulnerable position, and slaughter them with Shades/Darkshards or overwhelm them with infantry/cavalry. This requires all of six simple interactions (clicks/hotkeys) to do, just don't forget them.

4. They're bad at everything else
Dark Riders are better at hitting enemy archers. And Dark Riders are bad.
Their leadership is high, which means if you make a mistake but pull them out in time, they'll forgive you... but that also means they're quite willing to work themselves to uselessness with that high leadership.
You might think that physical resistance makes them good against armor piercing! Well, no, actually. That just means everything kills them with equally good effectiveness.
The relative lack of armor-piercing means they'll always be support infantry. As said in 1, they're not a good match up against anything by themselves. They're kind of like archers. They'll kill things but they need the enemy focused on someone else. And that's a bit of a challenge since they need to be in melee to work.

-summary-
Witch Elves are superb at flanking, which means you need to at least match the enemy in infantry in number and quality. Thus they're bad in Shard armies, which is why they have a bad rep with players. They're certainly worth using, because they'll flank more efficiently than just about anything else...

Here's the end deal, though. Shades, Cold Ones and Handbow Corsairs are also good at flanking, but for different reasons. Witch Elves warrant their price tag like expensive underwear. When you see them perform, you'll be glad you got them.

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Nightskies:

Witch Elves warrant their price tag like expensive underwear. When you see them perform, you'll be glad you got them.

So what you're saying is most of us will never see them.