Waaagh-movement slow-down (quick fix)

[valky]

If you are annoyed by that and don't need to rely on those additional units, because your armies are pretty strong as it is - just disband the Waaagh units for great justice at turns start and the movement goes back to normal.
Even if it still gathers units - then do the same next turn and so on.

I'd rather have my OP movement, than snail across the map and getting out-run by level 1 armies.
e.g. Grom can pretty much solo a lot of things, so the 19 other guys in your army should be enough for the rare cases he can't.

Specially mid-late game (maybe not on legendary, but at least on up to VH for me)

maybe it helps ...

[Lady MacBeth]

Originally posted by valky:

Specially mid-late game (maybe not on legendary, but at least on up to VH for me)

maybe it helps ...

There is really no difference between legendary and very hard as far as the difficulty goes. Other then public order. So there are only 3 changes between the 2.
1. More PO penalty for the player and bonus for the AI.
2. No saving, AS only.
3. No pausing battles.

[valky]

I was more relying on the campaign bonus and henceforth more armies to fight against - and most likely increased higher tier units. Then I could imagine the Waaagh being more useful (I only used it 2-3 times in battle so far and am nearly done with the campaign o_O and only against WE earlier, who had gathered quite an annoying missile force)
Other than that, the changes are well known to me :>
Still annoying, if it takes 2 turns with a Waagh army attached to wander across a tiny province, that I could do in 1 without.
Quite happy myself with VH; might need to do one L at some day ^^

About the pausing - because you are not getting locked into the battle difficulty as well, like in Shogun II - is this always a thing? Was just wondering....
The overview battle map is probably gone as well, or was that changed too?

[archmag]

Originally posted by Ming:

Originally posted by valky:

Specially mid-late game (maybe not on legendary, but at least on up to VH for me)

maybe it helps ...

There is really no difference between legendary and very hard as far as the difficulty goes. Other then public order. So there are only 3 changes between the 2.
1. More PO penalty for the player and bonus for the AI.
2. No saving, AS only.
3. No pausing battles.

There is no bonus PO for AI anymore. They were updated to deal with it using buildings. AI has same PO on every difficulties with the exception of PO penalties provided by slaves for Dark Elves, they have some reduction to that part of PO penalty which depends on difficulty, but AI Dark Elven don't collect as many slaves as a player.

There are plenty of other changes too which affect the difficulty.
For player:
4. Upkeep +0% -> +10%

For AI:
5. Attrition -70% -> -80%
6. 1 extra global recruitment slot
7. Growth 100->125, Horde growth 8->9
8. Upkeep -15% -> - 20%
9. Recruitment -60% -> -70% (25% decrease in cost)
10. Construction cost for buildings -70% -> -80% (33% decrease in cost)
11. Unit experience per turn +250 -> +500
12. Replenishment rate +7% -> +9%
13. Additional replenishment rate for lords and heroes +14% -> +16% (player has +10% on both)

Originally posted by valky:

I'd rather have my OP movement, than snail across the map and getting out-run by level 1 armies.
e.g. Grom can pretty much solo a lot of things, so the 19 other guys in your army should be enough for the rare cases he can't.

Maybe for Grom Waaagh is useless because he can survive alone. But they can create plenty of other small armies which are really cheap and can actually provide a challenge to enemy when they have Waaagh. In my Vortex Vh/Vh campaign I tried to use Waaagh as often as I can (120 turns out of 167), it is really nice when all your armies can progress at once and it does not matter if Grom meets Malekith or some minor army that you just hired before starting a Waaagh and that got 20 other units in it. Yes, each of them moves slower but overall they progress much faster.

[valky]

Originally posted by archmag:

Maybe for Grom Waaagh is useless because he can survive alone. But they can create plenty of other small armies which are really cheap and can actually provide a challenge to enemy when they have Waaagh. In my Vortex Vh/Vh campaign I tried to use Waaagh as often as I can (120 turns out of 167), it is really nice when all your armies can progress at once and it does not matter if Grom meets Malekith or some minor army that you just hired before starting a Waaagh and that got 20 other units in it. Yes, each of them moves slower but overall they progress much faster.

Not necessary useless - also not only in Grom's example. But let's say you have a Waaagh ongoing, but have armies that will be not fighting anytime soon and you want to transfer them to some other place. That actually makes a huge difference.
I recently killed the last stuntie bastion *oh that pleasure* (and holy crap! the overhauled Slayer-King is actually now a Slayer-King) and needed to move those 2 armies across several other provinces.

In that case it actually helps a lot!

Not saying how people should or should not use their Waaagh!
But if it takes me 5 turns to get to my target, that otherwise would have taken 8/9ish turns, that does make a difference to me.

edit: I tend to play like any other faction, that has no access to such mechanic - given that goblins can have up to 42% phys res/frenzy/reg - yer arrers can either bomb/fire/BvL/BvI your target and such.....I really don't need any additional units. The new fanatics are the sh*t!

Wurrzag is still on my list - at least after the patch - so things might change. And by that time it's most likely fixed.

[archmag]

But if it takes me 5 turns to get to my target, that otherwise would have taken 8/9ish turns, that does make a difference to me.

I usually didn't have such trouble. I had most armies on the front line before declaring a waaagh and then just slowly "rushing" though the enemy territory while hiring new armies that don't have a waaagh to react to enemy attacks with all extra income that I get from fightning and capturing new settlements. I did have two armies going south after they finished conquering northwestern area of the Nagarroth in Vortex and by the time they arrived to Hexoatl other armies already took all Lustria. This could have helped them arrive earlier.

And by that time it's most likely fixed.

I think the ability to dismiss units from Waaagh can be removed as we shouldn't have any control over it logically speaking. I didn't even know that you could do that.

Overall army slowdown seems like an intended penalty for having a much larger force, so not sure if it is going to be fixed because then Waaagh won't have any significant penalties anymore (well, except losing current trophy for a chance to get another one and temporarily losing waaagh bar that gives some bonuses, which don't feel as significant to me).

But dismissing half-dead waaagh units and letting new ones join with 100% hp seems like a great use of this ability. I didn't think of this because I didn't expect to have any control over them and often my waaagh armies by the end of the waaagh were almost empty.

Anyway, thanks for mentioning that it is possible to dismiss those units. How someone uses that information is for the person to decide.

[valky]

Nay I just dismiss them right away...because it annoys me
I explicitly fight the battles without them participating.. because again, they suck - be it with big spiders or whatever stuff they come around with.
I couldn't care less...it's the 19 other guys in my own stack, that I care about .. but not some trash with no exp.

I currently dismiss any waagh unit I have from _ANY_ army i have in an instant.....I couldn't care less about obsolete sh*t.
If you need a Waaagh! to win a battle, that otherwise any other guy would win anyway with your typical 20-unit-stack, then am sorry for you - that you have to rely on those useless extra units, that no other faction does have.

Beastmen aside, but I sent them into suicide as well....cause of reasons.

Not my problem, if you idle around and such .. but am in a rush! I need to kill things and not wait forever 'til I catch up.+#

edit: don't be the knight in shiny armor - as much as I love CA (honestly!), that is the uttermost garbage and bug-ridden festival I've seen in my 30 years of gaming.
Oh and I was QA for 4 years as well....so please.
German products would never even have left the house, with that amount of bugs.
I noticed only 9 in the first 30 minutes after playing. But the official board got them all covered - I might have noticed a few others, but I also know how to mod.

[archmag]

Originally posted by valky:

If you need a Waaagh! to win a battle, that otherwise any other guy would win anyway with your typical 20-unit-stack, then am sorry for you - that you have to rely on those useless extra units, that no other faction does have.

How do you know that other guy would win the battles that I win with them? Can you take a tier 5 major settlement with some army inside with goblin stack with few trolls on Very hard battle difficulty not with the Grom's army? With Waaagh I can without much problems. Without Waaagh I also can but not always, depending on enemy army. And multiple goblin stacks can capture several settlements in the same turn instead of few less with less armies that cost more. I don't have to reinforce my armies before difficult battles so they spread throughout all the front line instead of going together. Plus I enjoyed the mechanics of letting AI control those reinforcements.

Not my problem, if you idle around and such .. but am in a rush! I need to kill things and not wait forever 'til I catch up.+#

Where do you see that I idle? I also rush and that is why I use Waaagh. I activate it and rush through enemy faction capturing all their settlements before they can reactivate their defenses. I don't have to hunt for Malekith with my main army, any army I have can kill his stack that has hydras and several dragons. And I don't even have large spiders in my usual army - 6 goblins, 9 goblin archers, 3 trolls, lord, hero. I can hire this army in 1 turn instead of idling to hire those spiders.

edit: don't be the knight in shiny armor - as much as I love CA (honestly!), that is the uttermost garbage and bug-ridden festival I've seen in my 30 years of gaming.

Ugh, why did you switch to insulting me with knight in shiny armor? Where did I protect CA in this thread?

You seem to suggest some things that I do and then become angry because I don't do them like you do. If you don't care about Waaagh why do you even activate it? Get one trophy and never start it again. I wouldn't even care about a trophy if I had to dismiss all those units every turn for 20 turns.

Just for statistics - I completed Vortex Grom's campaign on Vh/Vh in 167 turns while it took me 309 turns to complete it with Kroq-gar, 258 with Alarielle and 253 with Skrolk. Grom, Kroq-gar - full Vortex control (no other factions alive), Alarielle and Skrolk - with some allies left. Looking at this I see that progressing with Waaagh was much faster. I have no idea how long it take you to capture whole Vortex with Grom without Waaaghs, but for me the difference is significant.

But if it takes me 5 turns to get to my target, that otherwise would have taken 8/9ish turns, that does make a difference to me.

You also seems to be choosing targets in some weird way. Why would it take you 5 whole turns to get to your target? If you are attacking, then you jump from one settlement to another and they are all in 1-2 turns of movement range without bonuses. If you are defending you just hire another quick army in 1-2 turn range and use it to defend instead. The only time when you need 5 turns is when you move through the sea to the next continent. And you only need to do this two times in Vortex - Southlands to Ulthuan, Ulthuan to Nagarroth, so it is easy to time them to between Waaaghs.

[valky]

It never took me more than 200 turns to finish any campaign on VH with 6x Skaven/1xHE/2x LM in Vortex.....and some dabbling around with other faction, where I got bored from.

Hell even my old Norsca ME campaign was done in 256 turns....I I literally razed the WHOLE world (thank you Clan Moulder for resettling my mess)

Grom ME is most likely finished in 10-20 turns; am currently in turn 141

see the difference?

I don't like to idle around.....

If you need to cater your forces and built up stuff, it's obviously your problem but not mine....I like ruins left behind - a lot

edit: BM was done in 156 turns - people say, they are hard; I lol'ed
VH only

It's obviously pointless to discuss with you further, seeing you are a care-bear player, that slowly builds up stuff and such....while others have already overtaken the world.

edit: the strangest thing, because Grom was busy killing off the stunties - it will be a nameless Night Goblin Warboss, who will deliver the final killing blow to the pointy ears. (not quite nameless, the generator has given him the name 'Tzark' - he will kill off the last remaining bastion of the ponsy egoistical pointy ears! And I so looking forward to it)

Domination Victory >>> vortex ritual, takes less effort

For your pleasure - because to avoid the doomstack-discussion - I play with TT-caps

[Lady MacBeth]

Originally posted by valky:

For your pleasure - because to avoid the doomstack-discussion - I play with TT-caps

Mods change everything (I play modded unit caps and stuff too sometimes) so there is that.

[valky]

Originally posted by Ming:

Originally posted by valky:

For your pleasure - because to avoid the doomstack-discussion - I play with TT-caps

Mods change everything (I play modded unit caps and stuff too sometimes) so there is that.

Throgg/Queek/Tretch/Ikit/Tehenhauin/Nakai were done the good ol' way, though without that specific mod.
But it makes a few faction actually harder with it....DE are crazy evil.
I like to built my armies like I'd do on board....there is that ^^

But yeah pure vanilla and on the contrary even a tiny mod can change everything.

need more beer, though - and there is that! (I'd be a great stuntie in RL ^^)