What's the need of Eltharion in Badland anyway?

[𝓕𝒖𝒏𝒌𝒚]

It makes the campaign unnecessary harder right? Having to split your resources into two areas, Why don't we just disband him, re-recruit in Ulthuan and unite the High elf into a strong faction first other than have to build up from the beginning over there?
Eltharion should have a huge army to invade Badland in the first place ye?

[Dr. Uncredible]

Totally viable, in a head to head I played recently my co-op partner considered it but decided against it, but I see no reason not to,

[Zane87]

Probably the direct result of the feedback from Malus campaign where a lot of us actually enjoyed trying to keep 2 separate regions under control.

And you can do as you wish, if you don't want to start in the badlands, replace Eltharion (so you can disband the army) and recruit him in Ulthuan once recovered, totally up to you.
The badlands start is however for those who want to start somewhere else not on Ulthuan where basically 80% of the HE action is anyway. Same for Imrik starting in the Plain of Bones.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Zane87:

Probably the direct result of the feedback from Malus campaign where a lot of us actually enjoyed trying to keep 2 separate regions under control.

And you can do as you wish, if you don't want to start in the badlands, replace Eltharion (so you can disband the army) and recruit him in Ulthuan once recovered, totally up to you.
The badlands start is however for those who want to start somewhere else not on Ulthuan where basically 80% of the HE action is anyway. Same for Imrik starting in the Plain of Bones.

isn't the standard practice to malus campaign to forfeit one of the regions anyway?
There is little to no benefict, besides just making it all worse than it needed to be, most people keeping both regions seem to do it conditionally, by trying to ally or NAP everybody back in DE territory in hopes nobody attacks.

I've played head to head as eltharion too and it felt like my biggest mistake tbh, I should have never spent time there, it might cost my campaign, and we weren't even playing on a proper difficulty so the garbage mechanic of supply lines wasn't even bankrupting me, on legendary doing it would be unthinkable.

Edit: Oh, and to make things worse: Eltharion is the only one with imunity to badlands attrition, so the whole thing is a trap, never stay there, your second or third armies won't even be able to move to the next city without losing half their stacks, also mountains aren't suitable for him either so half the lands you could get are bad for you.

[VanguardMk1]

I like it. I can now have a fresh start location with lots of enemies while keeping a secure base on Ulthuan. You can conquer the few cities on Ulthuan pretty quickly and you usually don't need an army there anymore after that.

[Zane87]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Zane87:

Probably the direct result of the feedback from Malus campaign where a lot of us actually enjoyed trying to keep 2 separate regions under control.

And you can do as you wish, if you don't want to start in the badlands, replace Eltharion (so you can disband the army) and recruit him in Ulthuan once recovered, totally up to you.
The badlands start is however for those who want to start somewhere else not on Ulthuan where basically 80% of the HE action is anyway. Same for Imrik starting in the Plain of Bones.

isn't the standard practice to malus campaign to forfeit one of the regions anyway?
There is little to no benefict, besides just making it all worse than it needed to be, most people keeping both regions seem to do it conditionally, by trying to ally or NAP everybody back in DE territory in hopes nobody attacks.

I've played head to head as eltharion too and it felt like my biggest mistake tbh, I should have never spent time there, it might cost my campaign, and we weren't even playing on a proper difficulty so the garbage mechanic of supply lines wasn't even bankrupting me, on legendary doing it would be unthinkable.

Edit: Oh, and to make things worse: Eltharion is the only one with imunity to badlands attrition, so the whole thing is a trap, never stay there, your second or third armies won't even be able to move to the next city without losing half their stacks, also mountains aren't suitable for him either so half the lands you could get are bad for you.

Standard by whom? You can but the forum posts of the last months indicate that those having the most fun were those that did not give away the Hag. It also was a pretty crucial thing to do before this patch as the dragon isles had no way to trade whereas the hag as your port capital allowed you to do so.
Not to mention that the landmark and the mine of the Hag payed for another defending army there easily and allowed you to build higher tier buildings easily and safely faster than you could in the dragon isles.

So yeah, I dunno but those are plenty of reasons for keeping the Hag. Have we played the same campaign at all? ^^

And hey, difficulty is up to you. It totally and def. is possible as Eltharion on legendary, but it is harder. But it IS legendary difficulty, so that's what you are asking for in legendary, a challenge. Which was delivered tbh. And you don't have to, as I told you can start only on Ulthuan as well, along with Tyrion, Alarielle and kinde Alith Anar too (close enough to count).

About the attrition, I mean raiding stance is a thing, and the badland attrition is not everywhere, with movement bonuses you usually can march through some regions as well. Doesn't work everywhere, that much is for sure but it's not terrible either. Nothing you can't circumvent the one way or another.


Now if you ask my personal opinion though, I would be with you and start in Ulthuan, his Mist mechanic kinda is suited for that playstyle. But I am not trying to give too much of my opinion usually cause people have different tastes and as long as it makes sense, who am I to judge?

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Zane87:

Originally posted by VoiD:

isn't the standard practice to malus campaign to forfeit one of the regions anyway?
There is little to no benefict, besides just making it all worse than it needed to be, most people keeping both regions seem to do it conditionally, by trying to ally or NAP everybody back in DE territory in hopes nobody attacks.

I've played head to head as eltharion too and it felt like my biggest mistake tbh, I should have never spent time there, it might cost my campaign, and we weren't even playing on a proper difficulty so the garbage mechanic of supply lines wasn't even bankrupting me, on legendary doing it would be unthinkable.

Edit: Oh, and to make things worse: Eltharion is the only one with imunity to badlands attrition, so the whole thing is a trap, never stay there, your second or third armies won't even be able to move to the next city without losing half their stacks, also mountains aren't suitable for him either so half the lands you could get are bad for you.

Standard by whom? You can but the forum posts of the last months indicate that those having the most fun were those that did not give away the Hag. It also was a pretty crucial thing to do before this patch as the dragon isles had no way to trade whereas the hag as your port capital allowed you to do so.
Not to mention that the landmark and the mine of the Hag payed for another defending army there easily and allowed you to build higher tier buildings easily and safely faster than you could in the dragon isles.

So yeah, I dunno but those are plenty of reasons for keeping the Hag. Have we played the same campaign at all? ^^

And hey, difficulty is up to you. It totally and def. is possible as Eltharion on legendary, but it is harder. But it IS legendary difficulty, so that's what you are asking for in legendary, a challenge. Which was delivered tbh. And you don't have to, as I told you can start only on Ulthuan as well, along with Tyrion, Alarielle and kinde Alith Anar too (close enough to count).

About the attrition, I mean raiding stance is a thing, and the badland attrition is not everywhere, with movement bonuses you usually can march through some regions as well. Doesn't work everywhere, that much is for sure but it's not terrible either. Nothing you can't circumvent the one way or another.


Now if you ask my personal opinion though, I would be with you and start in Ulthuan, his Mist mechanic kinda is suited for that playstyle. But I am not trying to give too much of my opinion usually cause people have different tastes and as long as it makes sense, who am I to judge?

You're the one with the broad claim that "people liked that start", not me, as far as I know it was widely hated and Malus was considered a ♥♥♥♥ lord nowhere near Snikch's level on that DLC, one was nearly broken in all positive regards, the other was just garbage with garbage mechanics, garbage starting location, etc... His only saving grace was possibly a glitch that I doubt CA would fix now that it has been considered his single, only advantage, the fact that he can't get wounded when he transforms, so people abuse it to make his campaign and penalties bearable.

Most tactics involve praying for the RNG gods that malekith doesn't call you into a war at your home province and that nobody tries to rush you, otherwise any army back there will outweight any benefits you might have had by keeping it so you're in for a restart, if you want to gamble by keeping it, also, as you've said, if you don't keep it you're also bonned because of trade, so it's a terrible start either way.

Though I do find it curious that you've asked if I have played the game considering your "solution" to the badlands problem is raiding stance, something elves can't do.

But yeah, you could keep it and play on legendary with a crippling economy debuff from supply lines, the most hated mechanic of all time by making it a constant in the player's life from the very first turn, I suppose it would increase the difficulty, also, playing bretonia and recruiting nothing but peasant mobs also would increase the difficulty, specially on legendary, but that would be stupid, and that's my point.

Edit: having said that there are quests you can do for eltharion down there so there is some merit in staying, But I don't think it's a good idea to treat them as your lands, might be best to just get the first regon and then raze everything else to the ground so you won't need multiple armies down there to keep all fronts.

Once you get everything you wanted from that region it might be wise to just abandon everything and try to leave it for an ally, the dwarves will probably love you if you keep razing orc settlements

[Migromul]

Originally posted by Zane87:

Originally posted by VoiD:

*snip*

About the attrition, I mean raiding stance is a thing, and the badland attrition is not everywhere, with movement bonuses you usually can march through some regions as well. Doesn't work everywhere, that much is for sure but it's not terrible either. Nothing you can't circumvent the one way or another.


Now if you ask my personal opinion though, I would be with you and start in Ulthuan, his Mist mechanic kinda is suited for that playstyle. But I am not trying to give too much of my opinion usually cause people have different tastes and as long as it makes sense, who am I to judge?

HE have no raiding-stance, except for Anith Anar... But they DO have the camps-stance, this will slow you down, however.

But I also have kept the badlands.

The option to give that area up and go back to Ulthuan is even suggestet by the adviser... (..."or you do defend ulthuan yourself")...

It's not that bad. You have a 4 settlement-province there with only one port (having 3 for Yvresse with a standard-captial, and forcing you to build garrisons mostly.)

The Tomb-king is my long-term ally fighting his own wars without demanding to interveine, so you have only one front-line. The vampire is also defensive, although the corruption-thread is annoying. I tried to wipe him out, but didn't even reach one of the two cities... So I gave up on him... for now. (Meanwhile we have peace again, he even suggested a non-aggression-pact, but I declined that.)

I only have the problem,that grmimgor confedereated with grom (not the other way around..:) so I have two front-lines. now, one east and one north. But the action is only north at the moment. (None the less, I have a guard-army east...)

The corruption is annoying, though, Your po are in the negative with only one entertainment not in the main city. (max. t3...), even with only 10-15%, so you're forced to have characters in your province, which provide PO... None of your settlement-buildings give po on their own, there...

[𝓕𝒖𝒏𝒌𝒚]

Originally posted by Migromul:

Originally posted by Zane87:

HE have no raiding-stance, except for Anith Anar... But they DO have the camps-stance, this will slow you down, however.

But I also have kept the badlands.

The option to give that area up and go back to Ulthuan is even suggestet by the adviser... (..."or you do defend ulthuan yourself")...

It's not that bad. You have a 4 settlement-province there with only one port (having 3 for Yvresse with a standard-captial, and forcing you to build garrisons mostly.)

The Tomb-king is my long-term ally fighting his own wars without demanding to interveine, so you have only one front-line. The vampire is also defensive, although the corruption-thread is annoying. I tried to wipe him out, but didn't even reach one of the two cities... So I gave up on him... for now. (Meanwhile we have peace again, he even suggested a non-aggression-pact, but I declined that.)

I only have the problem,that grmimgor confedereated with grom (not the other way around..:) so I have two front-lines. now, one east and one north. But the action is only north at the moment. (None the less, I have a guard-army east...)

The corruption is annoying, though, Your po are in the negative with only one entertainment not in the main city. (max. t3...), even with only 10-15%, so you're forced to have characters in your province, which provide PO... None of your settlement-buildings give po on their own, there...

In my playthrough, the TK always be gangbanged by the greenskin, skaven and bretonia though, they don’t last long

[Inardesco]

It because he decided to whack some Greenskins (whom happily obliged) and then had to go back to Ulthuan cuz Malekith went all yolo

[Zane87]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Zane87:

Standard by whom? You can but the forum posts of the last months indicate that those having the most fun were those that did not give away the Hag. It also was a pretty crucial thing to do before this patch as the dragon isles had no way to trade whereas the hag as your port capital allowed you to do so.
Not to mention that the landmark and the mine of the Hag payed for another defending army there easily and allowed you to build higher tier buildings easily and safely faster than you could in the dragon isles.

So yeah, I dunno but those are plenty of reasons for keeping the Hag. Have we played the same campaign at all? ^^

And hey, difficulty is up to you. It totally and def. is possible as Eltharion on legendary, but it is harder. But it IS legendary difficulty, so that's what you are asking for in legendary, a challenge. Which was delivered tbh. And you don't have to, as I told you can start only on Ulthuan as well, along with Tyrion, Alarielle and kinde Alith Anar too (close enough to count).

About the attrition, I mean raiding stance is a thing, and the badland attrition is not everywhere, with movement bonuses you usually can march through some regions as well. Doesn't work everywhere, that much is for sure but it's not terrible either. Nothing you can't circumvent the one way or another.


Now if you ask my personal opinion though, I would be with you and start in Ulthuan, his Mist mechanic kinda is suited for that playstyle. But I am not trying to give too much of my opinion usually cause people have different tastes and as long as it makes sense, who am I to judge?

You're the one with the broad claim that "people liked that start", not me, as far as I know it was widely hated and Malus was considered a ♥♥♥♥ lord nowhere near Snikch's level on that DLC, one was nearly broken in all positive regards, the other was just garbage with garbage mechanics, garbage starting location, etc... His only saving grace was possibly a glitch that I doubt CA would fix now that it has been considered his single, only advantage, the fact that he can't get wounded when he transforms, so people abuse it to make his campaign and penalties bearable.

Most tactics involve praying for the RNG gods that malekith doesn't call you into a war at your home province and that nobody tries to rush you, otherwise any army back there will outweight any benefits you might have had by keeping it so you're in for a restart, if you want to gamble by keeping it, also, as you've said, if you don't keep it you're also bonned because of trade, so it's a terrible start either way.

Though I do find it curious that you've asked if I have played the game considering your "solution" to the badlands problem is raiding stance, something elves can't do.

But yeah, you could keep it and play on legendary with a crippling economy debuff from supply lines, the most hated mechanic of all time by making it a constant in the player's life from the very first turn, I suppose it would increase the difficulty, also, playing bretonia and recruiting nothing but peasant mobs also would increase the difficulty, specially on legendary, but that would be stupid, and that's my point.

Edit: having said that there are quests you can do for eltharion down there so there is some merit in staying, But I don't think it's a good idea to treat them as your lands, might be best to just get the first regon and then raze everything else to the ground so you won't need multiple armies down there to keep all fronts.

Once you get everything you wanted from that region it might be wise to just abandon everything and try to leave it for an ally, the dwarves will probably love you if you keep razing orc settlements

Yes, the claim based on the forum posts of the past. Which I wrote already.
And you of course can have your opinion but Malus was and is pretty powerful. His campaign effects are pretty meh I'm with you there, but mostly because of his replenishment Malus which suck big time.
In battle he is scary. Use him like any other Lord till things get critical, then get a full heal and trash the opposition with Tzarkan. Just make sure you finish the battle quickly then cause of the hp drain but in the time you use it he is pretty strong.

Not to mention that you can abuse the ability to just use it short before the enemy army routs resulting in a near complete heal for free each battle which means you could use Malus near indefinitely each battle as a damage soak and use tons of shards and shades with very little infantry. Which also means early expansion was pretty easy, especially when you also use corsairs with handbows as main Frontline as they rock in sieges too early on.

He was def. Not ♥♥♥♥ and I had a very easy time expanding with him therefore. Still the replenishment debuff sucked.


All the is irrelevant though because we didn't talk about the faction itself, we talked about the dual start. And while malus wasn't liked as a faction, the dual start was so how about we stick to the point at hand?

And with an army in ambush stance you could defeat any would be invader easily. They don't see your army as far as ai movement is concerned, I had literally 0 issues defending the hag province.
But you said it yourself, selling the hag was not that great either cause of the trade issue, fixed now but I said nothing else.


Did forget about the raiding stance, okay but they have camp stance which gives attrition immunity. And even if not, 1 turn attrition doesn't kill you the much if you invest in the blue line with the replenishment/attrition bonus which is one of the better ones anyway. And not everywhere is attrition, that part is not a huge thing and never really was.

Finally, don't ridicule here. You don't have to do anything and I said myself I would not stay in the Badlands but it's still the HE having one of the best armies against Greenskins which honestly are rather weak to missing heavy armies. You can totally win a legendary campaign that way. It's not as efficient or fast as Tyrion is but that's not the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ point.

We have different difficulties in starts for people wanting a different challenge. So far most HE starts were a cakewalk, now we have 2 decently challenging ones. If you don't like them that's on you but people have different preferences and those starts cater to those

[parent child bowl]

Why would you want another HE Lord that just unites Ulthuan? Ulthuan is the most boring place on the whole map...

[Zane87]

Originally posted by Migromul:

Originally posted by Zane87:

HE have no raiding-stance, except for Anith Anar... But they DO have the camps-stance, this will slow you down, however.

But I also have kept the badlands.

The option to give that area up and go back to Ulthuan is even suggestet by the adviser... (..."or you do defend ulthuan yourself")...

It's not that bad. You have a 4 settlement-province there with only one port (having 3 for Yvresse with a standard-captial, and forcing you to build garrisons mostly.)

The Tomb-king is my long-term ally fighting his own wars without demanding to interveine, so you have only one front-line. The vampire is also defensive, although the corruption-thread is annoying. I tried to wipe him out, but didn't even reach one of the two cities... So I gave up on him... for now. (Meanwhile we have peace again, he even suggested a non-aggression-pact, but I declined that.)

I only have the problem,that grmimgor confedereated with grom (not the other way around..:) so I have two front-lines. now, one east and one north. But the action is only north at the moment. (None the less, I have a guard-army east...)

The corruption is annoying, though, Your po are in the negative with only one entertainment not in the main city. (max. t3...), even with only 10-15%, so you're forced to have characters in your province, which provide PO... None of your settlement-buildings give po on their own, there...

Don't care for PO honestly. As HE, either try to have a steadily positive PO so you can get 75+ for highest bonus or don't care about rebellions and farm them instead.

One of the biggest mistake new players do is treating rebellions as sth bad, they are free gold and free exp and make the PO not an issue for at least a couple of turns thanks to military crackdown buff.

Time it right so you can kill them 1 or 2 turns after they spawn but otherwise don't let them limit you really. If you use armies and heroes preventing a rebellion you lost time and money twice.

[Zane87]

Originally posted by parent child bowl:

Why would you want another HE Lord that just unites Ulthuan? Ulthuan is the most boring place on the whole map...

Exactly. But some people want easy things I suppose. Which is fair, but they shouldn't assume their preferences matter more than others

[Konstantin]

At least he starts with two lords and has to ecenomy to support it (looks at Alith Anar who got his homeland overrun by Druchi and is surrounded by Druchi and Imrik who has such a weak economy that he can not afford to defend his homeland after he got it back while lacking a port to trade)

[Ōkami Soul .:|:;]

Eltharion in ME feel "Meh".

You have an interesting faction mechanic focused on defend your capital province, but you have near mostly friendly and powerfull HE faction there.

The best way to get your faction resurce is by raze ORK settlements, or by kil/release prisoners, at least in the vortex you got missions and buff to get them, dunno if the mission in ME are bugged or not.

In my short victory ME, when only 100 of blessing object was missing, all Orks in the Badlans were wiped out and only skaven were left.

The cage ability is a pain to use to get resource, were most of your enemy lords have a patetic leadership, so when they are near 50% HP they start routing.....oh boy, and if you try to get them imprisoned, most of the time your units start to go brainless and circle aroud him for the full duration......

Wish at least that the cage made the enemy go rampage.