Quick question about Tomb Kings (and undead in general).

[|51st|.Rct.Varometrikos]

I just lost a battle against them with Eltharion, him and another hero killed 230+ each after killing both Settra and a Tomb Prince, but their remaining units didn't collapse (2-3 spearmen, 1 archer, 1 guard). Shouldn't the undead get destroyed when their leaders died ? Could play the battle better though, i was a bit bored.

[yuzhonglu]

No. They take a leadership hit. But if they're winning the battle they won't collapse.

[Mky]

Depends of the difficulty mostly. The loss of a general should have a strong impact on moral leading to the collapse of the most weakened units. But even in normal difficulty, it's often not enough to see the remaining units starting to degen (as they behave like any other living units : if the unit is winning / flank secured / not that much casualties then it can "override" the loss of a general, which is completly biaised imo but tis how it works).

It's more obvious in VH difficulty as the units have a moral boost + often winning in melee = flank secure (cause other units are also alive due to moral & stats boost so they consider themselve winning/stronger than the opponent) + not much casualties so they retain high moral

A simple answer to this "problem" would have been to increase the moral drop from the loss of the general but for whatever reasons they never considered it.

[|51st|.Rct.Varometrikos]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von BRE Theobald:

Depends of the difficulty mostly. The loss of a general should have a strong impact on moral leading to the collapse of the most weakened units. But even in normal difficulty, it's often not enough to see the remaining units starting to degen (as they behave like any other living units : if the unit is winning / flank secured / not that much casualties then it can "override" the loss of a general, which is completly biaised imo but tis how it works).

It's more obvious in VH difficulty as the units have a moral boost + often winning in melee = flank secure (cause other units are also alive due to moral & stats boost so they consider themselve winning/stronger than the opponent) + not much casualties so they retain high moral

A simple answer to this "problem" would have been to increase the moral drop from the loss of the general but for whatever reasons they never considered it.

Oh my, and after 500+ hours i was focusing on the heroes when fighting undead... XD
Do you guys hope for a rework of Vampires too ? Some things could be imrpoved.

[Dr. Uncredible]

Idk. I feel that it would trivialize fighting them, there are so many easy ways to take down lords and if the rest of the army fell it´d just be too easy to solve all anti-vampire battles with an anti-character goon squad.

[tomasstigjensen]

Normal non undead units rout and sometime they run out of map if their morale drop to below 0, fleeing the battle. Thats why fighting near borders makes it easier since normal just flee the battles right away.

Undead dont flee they begin to crumble and loose health insteed.

There are REALLY many factors that effect morale. Easiest way to learn is to hold mouse over morale and you can see what give + or - effects. Not on Legendary though.

[funkmonster7]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von |51st|.Rct.Varometrikos:

Do you guys hope for a rework of Vampires too ? Some things could be imrpoved.

Vampires already had a rework.

[funkmonster7]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von |51st|.Rct.Varometrikos:

Oh my, and after 500+ hours i was focusing on the heroes when fighting undead... XD

Also, do focus on enemy heroes. Banshees are dangerous because they're ethereal and they are also hero/lord killers, you want to use single-target magic spells on it since ghost units are weak to magic. Vampire heroes can potentially heal their own and allies, otherwise have devastating magic spells too. Wight King you can leave alone for a bit. Definitely kill Necromancer heroes. And definitely kill the lords as quickly as you can. But make sure you do some damage to the enemy units as well, this way when the lords and heroes die, the regular army units already have less than full leadership and all the new penalties such as dead leader and heroes etc will drop the leadership down to below 0, which will cause crumbling. After a while, army loss penalty will cause them all to disintegrate, they will fall like a cascade if you time it all right.

If you time the leaders' deaths really badly wrong, you can potentially end up with a few undead monsters not dying quickly and massacring your units because they're incredibly powerful, such as Varghulfs in the early game (it has regeneration).

[Mky]

I'd like a more coherent rework but Dr. Uncredible is right.
The problems here are mainly bonus given by the increased battle difficulty that screw the balance of the game, especialy around moral.

At least there's one lore-wise mechanic that works quite well : fire :D

[Enelith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvSfWUcxYYM

Edit : All hail Zerkovitch (for his clear and interesting videos)

[|51st|.Rct.Varometrikos]

+Theobald+funkmonster7+Dr. Uncredible+Enelith

I pinned and killed Settra in the first 2 min, it would be too easy indeed. (Game of thrones anyone ? :P)

Being playing on normal with battle difficulty on very hard but thx for the tip. Vampires are all about buffs after all. The ethereals... what a bane they are!

Zerkovich is awesome, have to rewatch some of his videos. That video where he covered how damage works splash/cleave etc, blew my mind. It's all mathematics, thought they're just simplified animations for the sake of having no sync duels XD