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On higher difficulty there is even less reason to use them
My go to army with HE Is
Light Archmage with incendary trait
OR
Princess with punitive trait
1 Noble with big resistance
1 Handmaiden with resistant trait
14 archers/sisters
3 bolt throwers
In lategame sometimes i switch 2 sisters to Star dragons
And if you pit Silverine Guard against armor-piercing units they are gonna get their head chopped off just like normal spear units.
So yes spaming LS is better than SG. Or just play in normal battle diff.
I didn't reach Phoenix-guards, yet... But I tried the armored spearmen, mostly as flank-protection of my melee-line and the normal Spears, Seagurads and fog-runner-swordmen. In the back, I have the 1st tier fog-runner-hybrid-archers, and normally at least one of the artillery. (And I tend to forget to deactivate plankling, but I also play other factions, so I don't make that a standard in the options.)
Yet, I have a feeling, that the melees only stand dull in the area, if they don't constantly get an order to fight. (I have guard-stance as standard, because otherwise my units will get spread through the whole map...) But I have a feeling that the units - especially the melee-units - don't defend and let themselves get slaughtered, even from other melees.
The archers instead, normally shoot all in range with fire-at-will activated.
I didn't have much problems against the scaven and dark-elfs with Imrik. The new T1-swordsmen turned out to be usefull against them.
But if the enemy has strong melee (like the greenskins) the HE-melee suck, imho, even the armored.
LS?
-LSG have low model counts and low health per model, and low armour, so they melt super fast in melee. If you're going to assign to someone the job to hold the line, you want someone that won't flee after a few seconds against any t3+ melee opponent.
-Once passed half health your MD advantage will disappear, and guess what, that will come very quickly.
-low health+low model means a lot more damaged at the end of the battle than any other melee t3 option for HE will be so it will need turns to recover in comparison.
-LSG have both low charge and no expert charge defense and no bonus vs infantry. Meaning that against enemy infantry they have literally NO advantage and only inconveninents.
-LSG have got no armour piercing, both in melee and in ranged attack. So your 1-3 volees that they will fire before getting engaged, you think it make them worth it over melee only? Well,how about you test how much damage take a 80+ armour melee unit from an LSG firing at them until they reach them. They barely do more than scratching the armoured unit, especially if the armoured unit has some kind of shield or missile resistance.
-LSG melt against anti infantry damage dealer, even the fragile type, as their MD is simply not enough to compensate the bonus vs infantry and high MA of the opponent. Witch Elves are t3 and cheaper yet look at what a 25% damaged WE unit will do to a full health LSG once in contact. The LSG last barely more than a few seconds before breaking.
-LSG lose models very fast against anything and everything. an enemy missile unit firing at them (yes, despite the shields), magic, flank or rear charge, charge impact from a melee unit with good charge bonus, anything will make them get close of that 50% health so fast and once they go down below 50% they're useless in melee and will break in matter of seconds.
At t3 you want Silverin and White lions combo for your frontline. Both armoured, both lots of health, both being able to tank missile pretty well, Silverin having expert charge defense and anti large and good magic resistance make a very good core to it, and WL having AP and more mobility makes it more versatile.
... And they cost less than LSG too.
If that is a Seaguard-unit, (but what stand that "L" for?) I don't have difficulties with them. It's my melee-only-units that melt away not my seaguards...
WL?!?
Sorry, but PLEASE write the full name of the unit at least once, I don't know the shorcuts. (Since I play in German-language. But if the name is only written once, I should, know what units is meant.
Then I say guard causes this, or at least your expectations of guard. I never use it and while this causes problems with my spearmen running off after a fight is won, it does seem that spearmen pile in more and do more damage. But I expect to be corrected on this.
But you should want your spearmen to stand there 'dull' in the area. They're supposed to do that.
The result of such a battle depends on a lot of things from the type of Orc unit, general bonusses to spearmen and whether or not your spearmen started on the defence. Even so, they should buy you enough time to win the battle alsewhere.
L stands for Lothern, since the unit's name is "lothern seaguards".
WL is white lions.
Agreed it's a bad habit. LSG = Lother Sea Guard. WL? Got me there..
I think you are using them wrong. Units like the Spearmen, Lothern Sea Guard and Silverin Guard are ideally for holding the line, not going on the attack while the Rangers, White Lions and Swordmasters are definitely for going on the attack. Ideally, they should have archers behind them to rain arrows down on the enemy.
In normal campaign difficulty, I have seen Spearmen be fully capable of taking a head on charge by Chaos Knights and then beating them back. I just did a custom battle of High Elves vs Warriors of Chaos where two units of Rangers absolutely annihilated two units of Chaos Marauders while a 3rd group of Rangers fought a unit of Chaos Warriors.
Those Rangers were able to hold the line long enough for the other rangers to flank and they just slaughtered the Chaos Warriors with minimal losses.
Where HE melee infantry has problems is split between rangers and white lions
Seriously, Lanchester's Laws would like a word with you. The strength of melee troops increases linearly, while the strength of ranged troops increases exponentially with increasing numbers (basic N-square law says that the exponent is 2, but in practice it falls between 1.5-1.9).
LSG are only outperformed by any HE melee troops in smaller scales, whether by using low model count settings, or by trying to determine unit effectiveness in 1:1 regiment fights, which is improper methodology in this case.
As for the wall of spurious assertions regarding LSG stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY
Mods are irrelavent to this discussion.
High Elves are well ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ known - and have been for three years - for the many flavors of cheese available to them.