How to play Empire with Karl Franz?

[Chuddly]

Everytime I start a game with the Emperor (on easy because I'm a noob), beastmen and orcs come and destroy my towns on turn 4-6. So I unite Reikland and want to get Marienburg because I read Brettonia will get them fast if I don't yet these sub human scumbags invade in one turn and take out a city in one turn so unless my army happens to be within the range of a city... It's gone... How are you supposed to get anything done when hostile armies can enter your territory and attack two cities in the same turn?

I have a second army but it's tiny so doubt they could help much.

[Chuddly]

Paradigmal a écrit :

i would like to add that if the orcs are bypassing your fort you can put a single lord in it to draw them to attack it repeatedly...works wonders for me, although sometimes they still bypass it sadly.

So literally buy a lord and just station inside the city? not necessarily outside of it but in the zone of control?

[Chuddly]

3 Ducks In a Man Suit a écrit :

Also, I highly recommend building a Guardhouse in every town and fully upgrading it so the settlement will have walls, and if it's a major city upgrade the walls as high as possible. It might not be enough on its own to stop a large invasion, but it will should you safe from randomly spawned hordes.

Keep in mind also that lords and heroes spawn instantly when you recruit them, so you can potentially spawn some in to reinforce the town garrison the turn before it gets attacked

That sounds useful but very time consuming and expensive.

[fmalfeas]

Regarding Sieges for empire - On offense, you want Mortars, Crossbowmen, and depending on what you can get, Greatswords or Flagellants. And of course some trash with shields to buy a moment for the greatswords or flagellants to get into position. Those melee troops won't be doing anything ideally, but you may run out of ammo before the enemy finally gives up.

Put your troops on one side of the map. ALL THE WAY. Minimize tower damage. Use the mortars to clear any towers that can hit your troops right away, then take out one or two more towers that can hit you when you move the crossbows.

Now, move the crossbows to fire on any ranged units on the walls from maximum range. You want your shots landing from above them, thus the range. Any remaining mortar ammo should be spent either blowing the gatehouse/a wall section, or shelling troop clusters inside the walls.

Once the ranged units on the walls are dealt with, start shooting /over/ the walls, raining bolts onto the troops milling around inside. The goal here is to break their morale. If they give up, you wipe out the army.

Should they hold, their troops are now in terrible, horrible condition, and you may have a wall breach or the gate down. If not, send your lord and heroes to smash the gate. Forget ladders, they instantly exhaust your troops. That's fine for chaos or lizardmen, who have superior troops that will slaughter most wall defenders even exhausted, but the empire does not. Once you have a way in, force some trash inside and bring up the damage infantry (remember those flagellants or greatswords?). With lord/hero support, they should be able to finish breaking the enemy. If not, try to clear a path to the town square. Have your mortar crews drop their artillery, and move them and the crossbows through the path to the square. They may be bad fighters and out of ammo, but they can sit on a capture point just fine. Use the infantry to protect them while control is taken.

On /defense/ however, you want different troops. For wall stations, Handgunners and Greatswords are excellent. Don't send the greatswords up until the enemy is climbing ladders or the siege towers are almost there. Have them on the ground right next to the wall to keep them from being shot. They will shred exhausted units in tight confines.

One or two mortars will be more than enough as you'll have limited time to shell the enemy before they are in melee and thus you'd be shelling your own troops as well.

Later on, the mortars can be replaced with rocket batteries and great cannons and volley guns.

Note that I made no mention of swordsmen or cavalry. That's because they're generally BAD in sieges. Once in a while cav can work out in a siege, but it's rare.

Also, if you can, a Bright Wizard with The Burning Head is a battle changer in a siege (or most any other battle as well).

[fmalfeas]

Oh, and composition changes depending on who you're fighting. Against Vampire Counts, for instance, shields aren't important as they have no archers. But halberds are critical as they have lots of monsters. Against dwarves, if the unit isn't good at dealing with armor, forget it completely. Even dwarf miners have decent armor. Against lizardmen, spears and shields are the best bet for holding, as they use ranged AND big monsters. Same with Brettonia, but with cavalry instead of monsters.

Against Norsca, just accept that the only infantry you have that isn't terrible against theirs is greatswords and regiments of renown. Resign yourself to that, and roll out the artillery and guns. Blow them to pieces. And if you see a mammoth, shoot that thing with extreme prejudice. Rather have an incoming dragon than a mammoth.

[Chuddly]

fmalfeas a écrit :

Regarding Sieges for empire - On offense, you want Mortars, Crossbowmen, and depending on what you can get, Greatswords or Flagellants. And of course some trash with shields to buy a moment for the greatswords or flagellants to get into position. Those melee troops won't be doing anything ideally, but you may run out of ammo before the enemy finally gives up.

Put your troops on one side of the map. ALL THE WAY. Minimize tower damage. Use the mortars to clear any towers that can hit your troops right away, then take out one or two more towers that can hit you when you move the crossbows.

Now, move the crossbows to fire on any ranged units on the walls from maximum range. You want your shots landing from above them, thus the range. Any remaining mortar ammo should be spent either blowing the gatehouse/a wall section, or shelling troop clusters inside the walls.

Once the ranged units on the walls are dealt with, start shooting /over/ the walls, raining bolts onto the troops milling around inside. The goal here is to break their morale. If they give up, you wipe out the army.

Should they hold, their troops are now in terrible, horrible condition, and you may have a wall breach or the gate down. If not, send your lord and heroes to smash the gate. Forget ladders, they instantly exhaust your troops. That's fine for chaos or lizardmen, who have superior troops that will slaughter most wall defenders even exhausted, but the empire does not. Once you have a way in, force some trash inside and bring up the damage infantry (remember those flagellants or greatswords?). With lord/hero support, they should be able to finish breaking the enemy. If not, try to clear a path to the town square. Have your mortar crews drop their artillery, and move them and the crossbows through the path to the square. They may be bad fighters and out of ammo, but they can sit on a capture point just fine. Use the infantry to protect them while control is taken.

On /defense/ however, you want different troops. For wall stations, Handgunners and Greatswords are excellent. Don't send the greatswords up until the enemy is climbing ladders or the siege towers are almost there. Have them on the ground right next to the wall to keep them from being shot. They will shred exhausted units in tight confines.

One or two mortars will be more than enough as you'll have limited time to shell the enemy before they are in melee and thus you'd be shelling your own troops as well.

Later on, the mortars can be replaced with rocket batteries and great cannons and volley guns.

Note that I made no mention of swordsmen or cavalry. That's because they're generally BAD in sieges. Once in a while cav can work out in a siege, but it's rare.

Also, if you can, a Bright Wizard with The Burning Head is a battle changer in a siege (or most any other battle as well).

That is awesome! I'll keep referencing this in the future, thanks!

The only thing is, as Karl Franz you don't start with any mortars or great swords so I'd need to build their buildings up in a city and for mortars you need... Armoury and the gun forge or whatever and greatswords need armoury and something else and for those you need a level three city so it'll be a while before you have artillery and greatswords I imagine, right?

[Chuddly]

fmalfeas a écrit :

Oh, and composition changes depending on who you're fighting. Against Vampire Counts, for instance, shields aren't important as they have no archers. But halberds are critical as they have lots of monsters. Against dwarves, if the unit isn't good at dealing with armor, forget it completely. Even dwarf miners have decent armor. Against lizardmen, spears and shields are the best bet for holding, as they use ranged AND big monsters. Same with Brettonia, but with cavalry instead of monsters.

Against Norsca, just accept that the only infantry you have that isn't terrible against theirs is greatswords and regiments of renown. Resign yourself to that, and roll out the artillery and guns. Blow them to pieces. And if you see a mammoth, shoot that thing with extreme prejudice. Rather have an incoming dragon than a mammoth.

Also awesome advice, you wouldn't get this info without trial and error or lots of research I imagine. Thanks!

For sieges you mentioned Chaos and Lizardmen can fight fine exhausted. But orcs and beastmen, are they garbage after ladders like humans are?

[fmalfeas]

Regular goblins, ungor, and boyz, yes. Nasty Skulkers, Black Orcs, and whatever the big non-monster beasts, no. But they do get a lot weaker.

Even Chaos gets weaker, the problem is Chaos Warriors and Chosen are so potent, as well as Saurus, that as far as the empire is concerned, they're fighting fine. Always be aware of when your troops are simply outclassed and you need to deal with the foe in...other ways.

For example, if Chaos looks like they're going to attack one of your cities, this is one of the few times having (heavy) cavalry on a defensive siege is handy. Not a lot of them, mind you, but a couple. What you do is put some /very/ disposable units on the walls to man the towers as long as possible.

They're probably going to die. Horribly.

But their job was just to soften them up on incoming. Don't try to hold the walls. Not as Empire vs Chaos. Instead, hammer them from deep in the city with artillery, force them to fight you in narrow chokepoints (make sure they don't get to the town square), and when they're working on smashing your lines in the chokepoints, bring those knights around from another street and slam them from the rear. Probably not Empire Knights unless you can't do better. Reiksgard are fine though. About the same for attacking lizards, though they have a LOT more ranged than Chaos does. Also, if chaos brought a Hellcannon, during that 'incoming' part, have the towers focus on it. Those things are vicious artillery and one of the very few ranged units chaos has. Kill it, and you've pretty much removed everything but Melee from them. Not that it weakens them too much. Again, Chosen are really, really dangerous.

[Happyscientist]

fmalfeas a écrit :

said some stuff about sieges

eh cav can help in a defencive siege if charge em out and harass the enemy before they get to your walls, if you can get them to chase you then you buy more time that your towers and archers time to shoot at them.

As for offencive sieges Id actually advice against going through the gate for a few reasons. 1 Ai tends to guard the gate. 2. it opens you up to the damned archers as well as anything at ground level such as monsters or cav. 3. makes it take longer to get your archers on the wall.

If you can take the enemy's wall its generally useful to do so as you can station your own archers and infantry on it and rain death on whatever is below without fear of your own soldiers getting hurt (unless there are missile units below but its rare) large units such as cav and rat ogres cant climb onto the walls and for whatever strange reason the ai tends not move smaller units to the walls once they are on the ground. Sometimes the AI is even stupid enough to leave a high value target such as a lord or wizard in range of your walled archers.

With this strategy instead of bombarding the towers you want to bombard the troops on the walls with your mortar (or better yet the hellstorm rockets as they absolutely punish closely placing troops) . If you got a good map it is possible to carry out this bombardment and take little damage in return. If however you have a bad map then chances are your mortars are gonna take a beating before spending all their ammo and you'll have to retreat them. Either way you'll want to have the artillery stop as soon as you get your troops on the wall. Preferably youll want to get your anti-infantry (greatswords) or meat shield (swordsmen) up there first to engage anyone the artillery didnt kill and then have archers placed behind the enemy to shoot them in the back. Of course you may not have that luxury but it's nice and lethal if you can pull it off. Either way mop up the wall and then your archers can use up whatever ammo they have left on the enemy below while your melee units get to stand around in catch their breath without fear (assuming of course there is no artillery or missiles on the ground).

I should mention that artillery has a nasty habit of hitting siege towers if they happen to travel in the path of fire so be careful.

[lampuiho]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX75oIElveI

just watch him play for the first 20 turns or so to get started.

[TomN]

Frostback a écrit :

Happyscientist a écrit :

you think op is a troll then?

I'm literally just asking for help...

Oh dude, I am so sorry you took it that way from me.

Originally I was having a pop at the other guy, saying not to be mean to you as in "you ignore this guy", but I think I misinterpreted his meaning as he explained it in a different post (I hovered over the emoji he had, it said Dead pan pig, i'm the kind of person who doesn't get emojis in context, i basically went in my mind "well that's impossible, as dead pan is expressionless, but an emoji is an expression, therfore he is taking the piss out of you) 100% my misunderstanding and my fault, but certainly none of what I said was aimed at you.

Totally my fault, but I hope you see that from other posts from me, I was trying to help in them.

Anyway, I haven't been able to replicate your issue with the empire, but I just can't make it happen.

Instead of asking what DLCs you have, I'm going to ask What DLCs you don't have as that may be a shorter list.

There has always been a very ambiguous line with a couple of them, for example Blood For the Blood God, which on face value is just graphics pack, but when you read the description, it somehow has some campaign mechanics in it???? I know right, anyway, what DLC do you have/not have, so I can fully replicate your game.

[Chuddly]

TomN a écrit :

Frostback a écrit :

I'm literally just asking for help...

Oh dude, I am so sorry you took it that way from me.

Originally I was having a pop at the other guy, saying not to be mean to you as in "you ignore this guy", but I think I misinterpreted his meaning as he explained it in a different post (I hovered over the emoji he had, it said Dead pan pig, i'm the kind of person who doesn't get emojis in context, i basically went in my mind "well that's impossible, as dead pan is expressionless, but an emoji is an expression, therfore he is taking the piss out of you) 100% my misunderstanding and my fault, but certainly none of what I said was aimed at you.

Totally my fault, but I hope you see that from other posts from me, I was trying to help in them.

Anyway, I haven't been able to replicate your issue with the empire, but I just can't make it happen.

Instead of asking what DLCs you have, I'm going to ask What DLCs you don't have as that may be a shorter list.

There has always been a very ambiguous line with a couple of them, for example Blood For the Blood God, which on face value is just graphics pack, but when you read the description, it somehow has some campaign mechanics in it???? I know right, anyway, what DLC do you have/not have, so I can fully replicate your game.

It's no biggie I just don't want to be misunderstood as being a troll and to be forever ignored going forward. Nice of you to apologize and clear it up though!

Uh... .I'm not sure which DLC I have vs don't have... I'll get the list then edit in or post a new answer.

[Chuddly]

TomN a écrit :

Frostback a écrit :

I'm literally just asking for help...

Oh dude, I am so sorry you took it that way from me.

Originally I was having a pop at the other guy, saying not to be mean to you as in "you ignore this guy", but I think I misinterpreted his meaning as he explained it in a different post (I hovered over the emoji he had, it said Dead pan pig, i'm the kind of person who doesn't get emojis in context, i basically went in my mind "well that's impossible, as dead pan is expressionless, but an emoji is an expression, therfore he is taking the piss out of you) 100% my misunderstanding and my fault, but certainly none of what I said was aimed at you.

Totally my fault, but I hope you see that from other posts from me, I was trying to help in them.

Anyway, I haven't been able to replicate your issue with the empire, but I just can't make it happen.

Instead of asking what DLCs you have, I'm going to ask What DLCs you don't have as that may be a shorter list.

There has always been a very ambiguous line with a couple of them, for example Blood For the Blood God, which on face value is just graphics pack, but when you read the description, it somehow has some campaign mechanics in it???? I know right, anyway, what DLC do you have/not have, so I can fully replicate your game.

I bought a ton of DLC thinking I needed the DLC for the AI to play as those races... I realize now that that is not the case:

Warhammer 1:

The Grim and the Grave
30th anniversary regiments
Blood for the Blood God
Chaos Warriors
Brettonia
Grey Wizard
Grombrindal The White Dwarf
Isabella Von Carstein
Jade Wizard
Krell
Wurrzag

Warhammer 2:

The Grim and the Grave (shows up a second time)
Curse of the Vampire Coast
Gotrek and Felix
Blood for the Blood God (again)
Bone Giant
Chaos Warriors Race Pack
Rise of the Tomb Kings
Isabella Von Carstein
Krell
Alith Anar
Amethyst Wizard
Brettonia
Gor-Rok
Grey Wizard
Lokhir Fellhart
Repanse De Lyonesse
Steps of Isha
Tiktak'to
Tretch Craventail[
Wurrzag

It's really nice of you to want to emulate my game. I really appreciate your help!

[Chuddly]

fmalfeas a écrit :

Regular goblins, ungor, and boyz, yes. Nasty Skulkers, Black Orcs, and whatever the big non-monster beasts, no. But they do get a lot weaker.

Even Chaos gets weaker, the problem is Chaos Warriors and Chosen are so potent, as well as Saurus, that as far as the empire is concerned, they're fighting fine. Always be aware of when your troops are simply outclassed and you need to deal with the foe in...other ways.

For example, if Chaos looks like they're going to attack one of your cities, this is one of the few times having (heavy) cavalry on a defensive siege is handy. Not a lot of them, mind you, but a couple. What you do is put some /very/ disposable units on the walls to man the towers as long as possible.

They're probably going to die. Horribly.

But their job was just to soften them up on incoming. Don't try to hold the walls. Not as Empire vs Chaos. Instead, hammer them from deep in the city with artillery, force them to fight you in narrow chokepoints (make sure they don't get to the town square), and when they're working on smashing your lines in the chokepoints, bring those knights around from another street and slam them from the rear. Probably not Empire Knights unless you can't do better. Reiksgard are fine though. About the same for attacking lizards, though they have a LOT more ranged than Chaos does. Also, if chaos brought a Hellcannon, during that 'incoming' part, have the towers focus on it. Those things are vicious artillery and one of the very few ranged units chaos has. Kill it, and you've pretty much removed everything but Melee from them. Not that it weakens them too much. Again, Chosen are really, really dangerous.

I see. so basically Empire is garbage unless using artillery or Demigryph knights and perhaps a couple others.

During a siege is it possible to open the gates and lead a "sortie" with the knights?

[Chuddly]

Happyscientist a écrit :

fmalfeas a écrit :

said some stuff about sieges

eh cav can help in a defencive siege if charge em out and harass the enemy before they get to your walls, if you can get them to chase you then you buy more time that your towers and archers time to shoot at them.

As for offencive sieges Id actually advice against going through the gate for a few reasons. 1 Ai tends to guard the gate. 2. it opens you up to the damned archers as well as anything at ground level such as monsters or cav. 3. makes it take longer to get your archers on the wall.

If you can take the enemy's wall its generally useful to do so as you can station your own archers and infantry on it and rain death on whatever is below without fear of your own soldiers getting hurt (unless there are missile units below but its rare) large units such as cav and rat ogres cant climb onto the walls and for whatever strange reason the ai tends not move smaller units to the walls once they are on the ground. Sometimes the AI is even stupid enough to leave a high value target such as a lord or wizard in range of your walled archers.

With this strategy instead of bombarding the towers you want to bombard the troops on the walls with your mortar (or better yet the hellstorm rockets as they absolutely punish closely placing troops) . If you got a good map it is possible to carry out this bombardment and take little damage in return. If however you have a bad map then chances are your mortars are gonna take a beating before spending all their ammo and you'll have to retreat them. Either way you'll want to have the artillery stop as soon as you get your troops on the wall. Preferably youll want to get your anti-infantry (greatswords) or meat shield (swordsmen) up there first to engage anyone the artillery didnt kill and then have archers placed behind the enemy to shoot them in the back. Of course you may not have that luxury but it's nice and lethal if you can pull it off. Either way mop up the wall and then your archers can use up whatever ammo they have left on the enemy below while your melee units get to stand around in catch their breath without fear (assuming of course there is no artillery or missiles on the ground).

I should mention that artillery has a nasty habit of hitting siege towers if they happen to travel in the path of fire so be careful.

Cool! So cav can be used for Sorties? How do you open the gate?

Taking advantage of the AI... Wish they were programmed better lmao. I guess it must be extra hard to program AI in a game where each race plays differently.

So you can technically pound a fortress into submission with artillery? Or you absolutely have to capture the control point?

[Chuddly]

lampuiho a écrit :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX75oIElveI

just watch him play for the first 20 turns or so to get started.

Thanks!

Edit: I"ll check it out but it's 8 hours hahaha