How best to use War Lions?

[Goatmanpig]

Title

The best use for them I've found is to go after ranged/archers but silver helms do that just as well if not a little better. I've noticed they don't perform too well against most infantry though for an anti infantry unit.

[Goatmanpig]

Originally posted by Gamefever:

Chariots are better? Why those are a Tier 4 Unit!
Almost anything flying? Right everything but the Tier 3 Great Eagles amiright?

So the consensus is that in campaign why we should have to wait till we get Tier 4 Chariots or Flying units before we use anything for flanking or chasing routing units. Thats a lot of turns to have to wait to get units we need to make our lives easier.

Its so much faster to get the Glade down in a Tier 3 settlement and then get our hands on a few White Lions, a Great Eagle, and a War Lion for our army.

But that goes against accepted Doctrine of Spearwall Block and Archer spam.
Afterall when my first city hits Tier 3 I can get the tier 2 Seaguard with spear an bow to replace all my stuff with! But what I should really do is wait till I get my Tier 3 Port down so I can finally get the real powerful Shielded Seaguard!

Meanwhile I might actually need the Armor Penetration and other abilities I can find in those 3 units that apparently have not earned the communities time of day.

Remember everyone your supposed to hold out for the all powerful Phoenix Guard Wall and Seaguard endgame spam. Or ultimately produce an army full of dragons. Any off the beaten path is against internet doctrine!

Obvious troll/joke aside, at the same tier as war lions you can get Silver helms with shields. Same health, more models, higher Defence, and more armor. For most of the uses you’d use war lions for you’d be better off using silver helms.

[brynjar]

^^Silver helms, much more expensive to get on the field to begin with.

Lions compared, low upkeep, low cost, forest movement. Speed 86, same as chariots. Use chariots arrows until depleted then you got a good combo of chase squad. They suit the skirmish, speed build.

And last but not least. Lions EAT horses (irl)

[...]

Originally posted by Sn3z:

Originally posted by ...:

Using War Lions with Silver Helms I have no reason to recruit Dragon Princes. Use their strengths together and they are basically just as good as Dragon Princes.

That is a bad use of unit slots though...

Most of my armies will contain at least 4 cav.

Originally posted by endrsgm:

Originally posted by big stupid jellyfish:

DIsband them immediately and demolish every grove you have. Every unit from there is trash. Use the money to get more spears and archers.

Yeah.
i see people saying I have 1-2units of this and 3-4 of that at most and I'm wondering wtf.
6-7 units spears
6-7 units archers
that's 12-14 (15 with Lord) out of 20 already in my armies. how they have room for this stuff?
at most in an army I have about 2 or maybe 3 spots I can dedicate to anything else. maybe 3 melee specialist units or 3 cav or whatever.

but I read these things and wonder if their entire army is just circus units and they don't even have a line or what?

Here is one of my army compositions.

Eltharion - Stormwing

• Noble - Great Eagle
  
• Arcane Phoenix
  
  • Noble - Great Eagle, Arcane Phoenix, Eltharion - Stormwing together become my flying hit squad, very useful in siege battles to take out artillery. Will also split them up if I need support in multiple spots and bring them back together when I don't.
• 3x Athel Tamarha Faithbearers
  
  • ATF buzzsaw through low armor infantry and have ok holding power
    
  • Support with archers/cav when needed.
• 2x Silverin Guard
  
  • Use as a second line or to take out large units on frontline
    
  • Sometimes place both on my right flank and 3 of my cav on my left flank if the enemy has a lot of cav.
    
  • May use in the front line if the enemy has a ton of infantry.
• 2x White Lions of Chrace
  
  • I will focus on any high armor infantry unit
    
  • Support them when needed with flyers/archers/lions.
• 2/3x Spire Guard of Tor Yvresse
  
  • I place one on my right flank, one on my left flank and one in the center flank. They double as spearmen if my flanks are being overloaded and/or use them to kite infantry when needed.
• 2x Sentinels of Astaril
  
  • Place inbetween my Spire Guard of Tor Yvresse
    
  • Keep them out of melee at all cost, they are my best tool for destroying high value targets and soften up high armor/shielded elite infantry.
    
  • Only place in melee as a last resort or when out of ammunition
• 2x Silver Helms
  
  • Normally keep 2 on my left flank with one War Lion
    
  • Use them to chase off/hold enemy cav
    
  • Support them with Archers/War Lions/Flyers when needed
    
  • Use to open an enemies flank to one or more War Lions
    
  • Kill off enemy archers
    
  • Attack flanks of infantry when there are no other targets
• 2x War Lions
  
  • Infantry/Chariot killers
    
  • Normally leave one in reserve to support my right flank or my center
• 1-2x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
  
  • Mostly used in siege battles to destroy towers and allow my archers to outrange walls from safety
    
    • Unending Volley with these will trivialize any siege battle
  • Use to force enemy to come to you
    
  • Target biggest threats to my frontline
  
  Hopefully this helps. I always try to have multiple purposes for any unit I put in my army so I can have more value for the slot and upkeep. I also try not to put too many archers in an army, I find that if my archers have ammo at the end of the battle then I probably had too many archers.
  
  I used to spam just archers/spearmen until I unlocked Swordmasters of Hoeth. With this update you don't have to do that anymore. You can now make a very versatile, well balanced army in the early/mid game that preforms way better than your average spearmen/archer spam. I really enjoyed this update.
  
  If I do another playthrough I'm probably gonna kill Eataine right off the bat. Currently, Tyrion will win the campaign for you as long as you can just survive, makes it pretty boring. Would love it if they made Tyrion's AI less oppressive on the campaign.

[Eggy]

Hey guys. Noob here. Forgive me if this is a stupid question... But I just started playing yesterday, and my Grove only provides White Lions of Chrace and Great Eagles. My talent tree has things in it that increase the damage of War Lions, but I can't find War Lions anywhere!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Ironslayer541]

Originally posted by Eggy:

Hey guys. Noob here. Forgive me if this is a stupid question... But I just started playing yesterday, and my Grove only provides White Lions of Chrace and Great Eagles. My talent tree has things in it that increase the damage of War Lions, but I can't find War Lions anywhere!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

New dlc has them.

[Eggy]

Thank you for your quick reply.
Are they available for all High Elves, and would they be added to my current campaign?

[Ironslayer541]

Originally posted by Eggy:

Thank you for your quick reply.
Are they available for all High Elves, and would they be added to my current campaign?

I haven't played the high elves since the dlc came out but every dlc unit can be used for the entire race. I don't know if they would be added in your current campaign but I would assume they would be ready for use since there already in the game in the ai can use them.

[Eggy]

I bought the DLC and they were added to my current campaign... Thanks so much!

[Ironslayer541]

Originally posted by Eggy:

I bought the DLC and they were added to my current campaign... Thanks so much!

Np have a good one.

[8-The-General-8]

Originally posted by ...:

Originally posted by Sn3z:

That is a bad use of unit slots though...

Most of my armies will contain at least 4 cav.

Originally posted by endrsgm:

Yeah.
i see people saying I have 1-2units of this and 3-4 of that at most and I'm wondering wtf.
6-7 units spears
6-7 units archers
that's 12-14 (15 with Lord) out of 20 already in my armies. how they have room for this stuff?
at most in an army I have about 2 or maybe 3 spots I can dedicate to anything else. maybe 3 melee specialist units or 3 cav or whatever.

but I read these things and wonder if their entire army is just circus units and they don't even have a line or what?

Here is one of my army compositions.

Eltharion - Stormwing

• Noble - Great Eagle
  
• Arcane Phoenix
  
  • Noble - Great Eagle, Arcane Phoenix, Eltharion - Stormwing together become my flying hit squad, very useful in siege battles to take out artillery. Will also split them up if I need support in multiple spots and bring them back together when I don't.
• 3x Athel Tamarha Faithbearers
  
  • ATF buzzsaw through low armor infantry and have ok holding power
    
  • Support with archers/cav when needed.
• 2x Silverin Guard
  
  • Use as a second line or to take out large units on frontline
    
  • Sometimes place both on my right flank and 3 of my cav on my left flank if the enemy has a lot of cav.
    
  • May use in the front line if the enemy has a ton of infantry.
• 2x White Lions of Chrace
  
  • I will focus on any high armor infantry unit
    
  • Support them when needed with flyers/archers/lions.
• 2/3x Spire Guard of Tor Yvresse
  
  • I place one on my right flank, one on my left flank and one in the center flank. They double as spearmen if my flanks are being overloaded and/or use them to kite infantry when needed.
• 2x Sentinels of Astaril
  
  • Place inbetween my Spire Guard of Tor Yvresse
    
  • Keep them out of melee at all cost, they are my best tool for destroying high value targets and soften up high armor/shielded elite infantry.
    
  • Only place in melee as a last resort or when out of ammunition
• 2x Silver Helms
  
  • Normally keep 2 on my left flank with one War Lion
    
  • Use them to chase off/hold enemy cav
    
  • Support them with Archers/War Lions/Flyers when needed
    
  • Use to open an enemies flank to one or more War Lions
    
  • Kill off enemy archers
    
  • Attack flanks of infantry when there are no other targets
• 2x War Lions
  
  • Infantry/Chariot killers
    
  • Normally leave one in reserve to support my right flank or my center
• 1-2x Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower
  
  • Mostly used in siege battles to destroy towers and allow my archers to outrange walls from safety
    
    • Unending Volley with these will trivialize any siege battle
  • Use to force enemy to come to you
    
  • Target biggest threats to my frontline
  
  Hopefully this helps. I always try to have multiple purposes for any unit I put in my army so I can have more value for the slot and upkeep. I also try not to put too many archers in an army, I find that if my archers have ammo at the end of the battle then I probably had too many archers.
  
  I used to spam just archers/spearmen until I unlocked Swordmasters of Hoeth. With this update you don't have to do that anymore. You can now make a very versatile, well balanced army in the early/mid game that preforms way better than your average spearmen/archer spam. I really enjoyed this update.
  
  If I do another playthrough I'm probably gonna kill Eataine right off the bat. Currently, Tyrion will win the campaign for you as long as you can just survive, makes it pretty boring. Would love it if they made Tyrion's AI less oppressive on the campaign.

Now, that, is a rather sexy list.

To be honest I was so impressed with War Lions unit early game, I just rolled with it and experimented. They are fast and capable but not immune to heavy situations.

So, alas, my favourite unit at present.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Ironslayer541:

I haven't played the high elves since the dlc came out but every dlc unit can be used for the entire race.

Not really true.

We have the tree units only for Avelorn (Dryads).
We have Shadow-walkers only for Nagarythe.
The new FLC "Knights of Caledor" faction has a bunch of unique dragons only for its faction.
The new faction Yvresse has a huge list of Mistwalker (mostly hybrid infantery) units only for its faction: (The Skyhawks, Sentinels of Astaril, Spire Guard of Tor Yvresse, Athel Tamarha Faithbearers & Knights of Tor Gaval)

You can get some of the faction specific units by confederating, but you generally can't build more of them.

That said, every DLC includes units that are shared across the faction, for this one its the new Archmage lord type, Rangers, Silverian Guard, War Lions of Chrace, Lion Chariot of Grace & Arcane Phoenix. (Going by the steam store page for easy access to the information).

[Nyx]

Originally posted by Daliena:

They are adorable. Also, surprisingly sturdy (Ikit dropped a nuke on a cluster of my White Lions - shut up I didn't have Swordmasters yet - and while the infantry were wrecked, the war lions still had some half of their health), and strangely good at breaking down gates. I'm talking busting one open in seconds.

thats less because they are sturdy and more because how aoe damage is calculated, its the same reason a nuke doesn't do much to single model units like large monsters and lords.

[8-The-General-8]

If there is this much discussion they must be good.

[endrsgm]

that army list you laid out ... is that more single player or multi player or do you form your armies the same in either case? thats a nice army btw

[Sn3z]

Ok I got it, lions are basically a prelude to chariots(they are to be looked as chariot units) the white lion chariot and I suppose the Ithilimar(but not tiranoc) is their higher tier transition so atleast its possible now to work chariots into army's at a later stage where you already would have placeholders, chariots are even more disenfranchised than cavalry at their tier levels I never see the point using chariots because it seems to be just a waste of unit slots when HE have such army composition issues surrounding cavalry(no dedicated anti large needs support etc..). Really the lion chariot should be in grove T4 and perhaps lions to T2 this would be much better.