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Once you call a 2nd waaagh you still keep your 1st trophy for the duration of the 2nd waaagh.
If you fail the 2nd waaagh you end up with no trophy at all.
Success or failure you lose it either way.
If you win the 2nd waagh you get the new trophy, and if you fail the second waaagh you lose the 1st one and end up with no trophy.
They should instead give you a dilemma at the end of the waaagh where you can choose which one you want to keep.
I expect that to balance things, they should make the severed head on a stick (or trophy, I guess) decay over time--along with the blessings the trophy provides.
Perhaps the smaller trophies last longer so that way they aren't completely skipped over in favor of the big ones.
I also think maybe gained trophies can be stored in like, i dunno, a trophy case. And that even if the primary benefits have rotted away/disappeared due to a turn-timer, some small portion of them may still apply, so that there is incentive to get as many as you can.
If we could keep all the trophies and their benefits, the challenge of the campaign would disappear pretty quickly, so they have to do something to make further waaghs worth doing while trying not to overpower the player in the process.
As it stands, I have zero reason to get any more waaghs in my present campaign--except near the end of the campaign, even if I have to ignore the target of the waagh in favor of getting the extra armies to march upon the elves. Whether or not they were the intended target.
And as a hypothetical... Really, if Mork (or Gork) still get to see you pummel an enemy faction into pulp, dedicated to their cunningly spelled names,, would they be so upset with you if you beat the wrong faction you were supposed to beat anyway?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2108843493
Btw, do you know that if you dedicate 3 waaaghs to the same god (are Mork and Gork gods?) they give you permanent bonuses. So after 3 Mork Waaaghs you get 10% extra missile damage on top of everything else, after 3 Gork Waaaghs you get 10% extra melee damage (which may not work unless in beta branch, I don't know which bonuses exactly don't work).
It is always better to start another Waaagh as soon as possible. Losing old trophies and reduced movement speed are just minor factors to compensate for how OP the Waaagh is. And the less targets remain the easier it is to choose a top tier target for a Waaagh, so even if you have to do few low tier ones in the beginning you will get access to top tier ones later again.
You also seem to forget that while your waaagh army is gathering that slows down your armies significantly. If you play your battles well and can already beat other armies 1v1 without too many casualties and make good use of lightning strike while not letting yourself get overwhelmed there is little benefit to get extra fodder troops and losing a great trophy at the cost of the massive movement penalty that you get during the Waaagh, and can actually be a hindrance instead of a benefit especially on legendary difficulty where you often have to fight and defend on multiple fronts and wish you could be everywhere at once but just can't
It highly depends on the situation you are in and what kind of trophy you have gotten, some big Waaagh trophies are not that great but just saying you should call waaagh after waaagh nonstop without even looking is just wrong.
Just out of curiosity what difficulty do you play on?
For example, first WAAAGH!: 5% construction and recruitment - units = no orcs
Second WAAAGH!: 7% construction and recruitment, units - mostly goblins, a few basic orcs
Third WAAAGH!: 10% construction and recruitment - units = more orcs, maybe a few Biguns - rare chance of black orcs
Fourth WAAAGH!: 15% construction, recruitment - units mostly orcs - mostly biguns, bigger chance of getting black orcs - rare chance of monsters/siege engines
etc etc.
Would incentivize the use of WAAAGH! and the penalties between WAAAGH!s, if you know that "in a few turns the green tide rises again".
Umm, I literally said: "Losing old trophies and reduced movement speed are just minor factors to compensate for how OP the Waaagh is.". "...and reduced movement speed..." so why do you say that I forgot about reduced movement speed? And it is not just when gathering, it is while it exists. You move with two armies at once (you can see yellow arrow when trying to attack anything which shows that second army is going to reinforce) and only your army has movement bonuses, so movement range of the Waaagh army is used for the stack because it is lower. At least that's how I understand the implementation of these mechanics.
Ok, maybe this is one of the reasons I still prefer extra units in my army - I don't use lightning strike and I always walk with solo armies. I don't like it because it makes everything too easy. It disables reinforcements mechanics which I treat as important one on the campaign map (you need to find a way to separate enemies). Two armies right near each other but you can just activate the checkbox and fight them separately without actually separating them - a cheat. Plus you need to heavily invest in blue line to get it which only provides campaign bonuses instead of actually making your armies stronger. Anyway, just my way of playing the game. This option feels like unfair to me and I don't use it.
Waaagh on the other hand is not just a bonus, it also gives some penalties, like movement speed and losing previous trophy and reduced campaign bonuses from waaagh bar, so it feels fair to use it. If there would be no loss of movement speed and you could choose which trophy to keep, basically if you just got extra armies for free, then I wouldn't use this feature too.
Yeah, non-stop is wrong, I agree, because there may be a need to wait for few turns to move your armies closer to neutral faction that you plan to make a waaagh target, there may be a need to recruit few more units in an army to increase max waaagh size, maybe even hire extra army or some other reason to delay the start for few more turns. But just for few turns, not to ignore it because of the trophy.
I don't feel that movement penalty is an important factor when you can still move from one settlement to another in 1 turn even with waaagh. It allows you to overwhelm major settlements without bringing extra armies, it allows your weaker armies to deal with enemy legendary lord armies, it makes you much stronger, but slighly slower. It is a great thing for a push. When you are just defending then yes, maybe without waaagh it is easier because you can react to different dangers faster and can use settlement garrisons for help.
On Vh/Vh always.
I don't mind that people decide not to use waaagh at all. But I just didn't like a phrase "zero reason". One reason - permanent bonuses from Mork and Gork, second reason - extra units in each army when you need them, third reason - extra RoR units that you get after success (although for good ones you need max tier waaagh).
So pros:
1. Permanent bonuses from Mork and Gork
2. Temporary bonuses from Mork and Gork
3. Waaagh RoRs
4. New trophy
5. Extra units
6*. Extra fun from playing battles with AI controlled reinforcement (I missed it so much from older games)
* - means personal (maybe it is the main reason I like it so much)
Cons:
1. Reduced movement range
2. Losing old trophy
3. Resetting Waaagh bar
Plus the lightning strike concept exists in other total war games its just called night battles there.
I get that yes it might be useful to call more waaghs but its not as simple as clicking it as soon as its up.
Anyway, it is just my way of playing the game so that I better enjoy it. I also don't use confederation except for bretonnia factions where you can't attack them instead of confederating.
It's wrong term. AI can't cheat, it is not a player. It uses the rules that you set for it by choosing a difficulty level. Also AI does not use lightning strike against you, at least I've never seen it. I even heard that AI never invests more than 4 (or 5, not sure) points into blue line, which means AI never gets it (except Skarsnik who gets it in the very beginning but I never fought against him as I usually play on Vortex map so I don't know if Skarsnik uses it).
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2116163514
One of the screenshots with level 32 AI lord - 4 in red, 4 in blue, 27 in yellow (+-1). It shows that yeah, maybe the theory that AI does not invest in blue more than 5 point is true (I always forget to check enemy lords in late game to further test this theory).
I am not saying you are wrong, I just don't know. Based on my experience I never seen this situation and only read about 5 skill points in blue theory and checked it on 1 lord that I had randomly among my screenshots. But the way I play almost never gives a chance for an enemy to use lightning strike. I use solo armies most of the time, I don't park them near the settlements unless in ambush, I usually attack first instead of letting them attack me. So yeah, mine is a very weak position. But in latest Grom's Vortex VH/VH campaign which lasted 167 turns and 120 turn out of those were with Waaagh I would have noticed if at least one battle out of 112 land battles that I had was with lightning strike as there would be no Waaagh joining. There were none. So either it is extremly rare case or you need to use a totally different tactics compared to mine to make it trigger often, for example, use dual armies instead of solo and let enemies attack you instead of being the active one.
For him it is like a faction specific mechanics (like confederation for brets). For other lords it is not. I am not saying that it is cheating, I am saying that it feels like cheating to me specifically. I am not saying you should not use it, use it if you want and I don't blame you and never will say that you were cheating based on this. It is part of the rules so it can't be considered as actual cheating. But I don't like this part of the rules so I modify them to what I like better and it's not like I make my life easier because of this change, so I am free to do it without calling myself a cheater as I changed rules of the game for my side.
I played with Skarsnik for some time on VH/VH. Stopped after defeating the dwarf faction that has those ghost heroes. I played it before the Waaagh update so now it should be easier. I didn't use confederation with him and I won't use it. I am free to choose which tools I can and can't use out of those given to me to customize my experience.
I won't be playing legendary campaign as I am not a very good player and make mistakes often, and legendary punishes for those mistakes heavily, which makes it too stressful. And when I make mistakes I like to have a way to revert to an older save and do something else which means I learn how to solve the situation, not just do a mistake and then just have to deal with it without learning anything or have to start a whole campaign from the beginning. Also there are some bugs that are really annoying, like gate bug. I lost my whole army to a gate bug in my only Legendary Settra campaign when Sphinx and Settra went through the gate and the rest of the army was left outside during the siege of Arkhan's capital. It was easy to recover from this loss as Tomb Kings, but I don't want it happen to me in normal legendary campaign.
Anyway, peculiarities of my way of playing are off-topic for this thread, so I will just stop explaining it. I enjoy playing this way. Vanilla game without confederations and lightning strike on Vh/Vh difficulty. I also like Vortex campaign much more than Mortal empires.