The Shrine of Khaine

[Cleftin Twain]

Does taking this bring the sword back once the Shrine is built or is beating the current holder the only way?

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by Lvl One Mage:

Does taking this bring the sword back once the Shrine is built or is beating the current holder the only way?

Unless you're the Elves, you can only get the sword by beating the holder. Dunno how it works when you're the Elves though. Never played them.

[Ashley]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Originally posted by Lvl One Mage:

Does taking this bring the sword back once the Shrine is built or is beating the current holder the only way?

Unless you're the Elves, you can only get the sword by beating the holder. Dunno how it works when you're the Elves though. Never played them.

You build a shrine that takes an obnoxious amount of time to make then you can draw it whenever you want. I assume if it's returned then you can repull it whenever. Though i'm not sure what happens if all the elves are killed and the sword is returned I assumed it's lost for the rest of the playthrough.

[RCMidas]

High Elves, Dark Elves, and Wood Elves can all build the Shrine of Khaine. Once it is built, one of those factions can draw the Sword. The Sword will then be locked to the wielder unless they are defeated in battle, in which case the victor can choose to keep it, or to return it. After a while, there will be a dilemma for the owner requiring them to choose whether to return the Sword or to keep it - at which point the ONLY way any other Lord can take it is by beating the wielder in battle.

If there are no High Elves, Dark Elves, or Wood Elves left standing; and the Sword of Khaine is resting at its shrine, it will remain there. I believe I have seen some other races be able to build a version of the Shrine of Khaine, but they are not able to draw the Sword from it. Under normal conditions, Nosicruith, leader of the Dark Elven Scourge of Khaine faction, will typically draw the Sword first, as his faction starts with the Shrine of Khaine already built. Within a few turns, the Sword tends to be captured by Alarielle.

[Shirome Artiste]

Basically, it works as follows.

1: Someone(High/Dark elves only? Dunno about WE because I never go to ulthuan as WE) builds the shrine of khaine.
2: That (elven) faction can now draw the sword by garrisoning a lord there.
3: Lord has the sword of khaine.

It can then go in two directions:
1: The lord relinquishes the sword when it "levels up", and it returns to the Shrine of Khaine.

2: The lord holding the sword is slain, and the victorious army is given a prompt if they want to claim the sword.

if 1: Whichever ELVEN faction currently owns the Shrine of Khaine(Basically the minor village with the building built in it) can garrison a lord there and "draw the sword" and things proceed as normal.

If 2: Whichever lord picked up the sword of khaine can now hold onto it, regardless of faction. You are prompted whether you want to relinquish the sword(I.E. returning it to the shrine, giving whichever elven faction controlling it the chance to equip it once more) every time it grows in power via a dilemma prompt.


Now, as a non-elven faction you must keep in mind that you cannot redraw the sword from the shrine. As such, if no elven faction holds the minor city in question(They will ALWAYS prioritize building the shrine. In all my playthroughs I've yet to see an AI elven faction NOT build the shrine) you must decide whether you want to either keep the sword and accent the penalties holding onto it infers(Diplomatic and PO penalties as well as a minor debuff trait you get if you hold onto the sword for too long with a single lord) or basically remove the sword from the game if no elven faction is around to (re)build the shrine.


While I've heavily modded my game and cannot for the life of me remember how it goes in vanilla in terms of how long you can hold onto the sword as a non-elf faction, IIRC you can "eat the penalties" and hold onto the sword indefinitely with a single lord, only taking the PO, diplomatic relations and negatrait penalties. Which, on the flipside, does mean you basically have the ultimate IWIN armykiller item on a lord, and if you're holding it on ANY melee or hybrid lord it basically turns them into armykillers. On a caster lord I'd be a bit more doubtful because even with the sword there's only so much you can boost the survivability of casters.


So, yeah. Non-elf factions basically have to hope an elf faction has the shrine built if you want to return the sword and still have a chance of retaking it from the cold, dead hands of whichever elf happens to hold it at that point.

[Cleftin Twain]

I can't for the life of me figure out how Alarielle gets it as AI unless she bum rushes because that Gate battle is brutal with starting units.

[RCMidas]

There's a fun advantage to having a caster lord on a flying mount with the Sword of Khaine, and either Arcane Conduit or an item that boosts the Winds of Magic - set battles to unlimited time and you are guaranteed to win virtually battle without fail, no matter how many opponents you are up against. Unbreakable, uncatchable, unbeatable.

Only their archers pose any real threat, but you should be good enough at this point to micro around them whilst focusing your spells on them, and it is a rare army indeed that has enough flyers to make your caster suffer if you focus on them early.

Naturally, the best would be any of Malekith, Morathi, Alarielle, Gelt (the latter two in particular since they don't have unique weapons that would be replaced by the Sword, and Gelt especially is a beast with properly specced magic) or Azhag or any vampire lord with the Lore of Death.

[RCMidas]

Originally posted by Lvl One Mage:

I can't for the life of me figure out how Alarielle gets it as AI unless she bum rushes because that Gate battle is brutal with starting units.

When playing as Tyrion, I regularly see Nosicruith try to move down from the Gate to grab the port of Evershale. By this point, Alarielle has built up her archers and spears and can wipe him easily. By the time he recovers, she's strong enough to grab the Gate and recover from the heavy losses incurred in doing so. And then...well, even the Sword of Khaine isn't enough to stop her.

[Cleftin Twain]

I've been handily defeated when attempting to manually fight that battle that early on.

[RCMidas]

Autoresolve seems to favour Avelorn in that engagement however, especially when it is AI vs AI, as Avelorn is a major faction and thus gets a slight, but noticeable, boost when against a minor faction such as the Scourge of Khaine.

Going full archer is a valid strategy too if you're autoresolving that battle. Ranged units are vastly favoured in autoresolve and since that is the only way AI vs AI ever plays out...