DE Hydra death stacks

[Cybroxis]

Yeah, I have ver little clue what to do here. I have 5 units of Stormvermin with Halberds, 2 Poison Winds, 2 warpfire throwers (I know, I didn’t listen to the experts, but they’re just so cool ;( ), 2 warp lightning cannons, 2 plagueclaws, 2 death runners, Tretch, a Plague Priest, and a Engineer. I have been trying to kill Malekith’s army with like 5 Hydras + 1 Manticore and some archers, corsairs, etc. The rest of his army is easy, but no matter how much I try, I can’t even kill 1 Hydra before it gets to my line, and at that point Malekith comes riding in on his chariot with Ride of the Valkyries playing in my head and smashes into my catapults, warp lightning cannons, and globadiers. I can try throwing Tretch in there and he can kill a couple of the hydras given enough time, but by that point the rest of his army is more of a problem and I have barely any units to deal with them. My lines have been as broken as my spirits.

On the bright side, if I exit out of this battle I can keep reliving the same experience over and over again (Legendary). Is there any way out of this situation or am I just doomed?

How do I counter Hydras when my anti-large units don’t do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ against them and I don’t have fire (warpfire doesnt count yay!)?

[Bryan=0101]

that is quite the pickle...

[Cacomistle]

It kind of sounds like you made the mistake of making an army thats fun to use instead of just overpowered. And you got caught in a fight you don't want to take with it. If you could reload a turn earlier, a simple 6 unit garrison is probably enough to turn the tides, cause all you really need is some fodder to distract malekith (or tretch but Malekith is way more mobile).

Presumably you're spawning a ton of rats in front of his army? I think the hydras will terror route clanrats, but if you summon plague monks just to eat their charge, or summon clanrats to to stop Malekith that can work.

If hes tanky enough, theres also the run tretch out in front and distract 3 of them strategy. Then you can get the archers to shoot at him too. And hopefully the rest of your army can win.

But yeah, basically you're fighting an army that just has more expensive units than yours, with one of the few legendary lords in the game who isn't stupidly powerful. And your army isn't a spam of units that abuse ai. Unfortunately that means you can't take tough fights, and you're probably screwed if you can't avoid this fight. Make your next stack out of OP units and you'll probably be still be ok in the overall campaign.

[Guts]

The AI will always bring cheese when they can, so you did the wrong thing making a balanced army.
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[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

I mean, you're playing Skaven, so you will have a problem...

I have 5 units of Stormvermin with Halberds

Good, they'll hold for a while. 5 isn't enough. You need 2 halbs per monster or you will have trouble. Make that 3, since your halbs are pretty bad as Skaven...

2 Poison Winds

Not good - I'll explain later...

2 warpfire throwers

Also not good...

2 warp lightning cannons

Better!

2 plagueclaws

Not good against Hydras but good against everything else... would still drop in favour of Stormvermin w/ Halbs.

2 death runners

That armor reduction will certainly help! Don't vanguard them though: stack them on your Stormvermin.

Tretch, a Plague Priest, and a Engineer.

Good: magic is always good.


Now as for why those Poison Winds and Warpfire Throwers, and to a lesser extent those cannons are a very bad call: as your army is entirely on foot you have absolutely no way of pinning down monsters. Hydras can and will run over your halberds to pick juicier targets. The AI is better than it was at launch and will no longer just muck around in a halberd moshpit: it will go for things it can kill.
It doesn't help that Warpfire Throwers are absolutely terrible in melee (worse than Clanrats?). While they are very thematic, you can't really afford that right now: you need to actually be able to win. :P

Warp Lightning Cannons suffer a similar fate, in that Hydras will simply run over them, shutting them down. However their initial damage output will be a lot higher.
Shooting Malekith isn't as juicy as a Hydra because his resistance to everything will be absolutely through the roof.

I'm not sure how rich you are: if you've got enough money to spare, consider bringing a supporting stack of either entirely Stormvermin w/ Halbs or Warp Lightning Cannons. If cannons, withdraw them at need. :P

Actually, that's not a bad idea: get an army solely of canons, deploy it right next to the absolute edge of the map, shoot as many Hydras as you can (& warpgale Malekith so he doesn't run over immediately). When they get too close, drop the equipment and hit the Withdraw button. :P

Simply because your problem is the Hydras and not everything else (your magic will kill infantry like those corsairs), I'd swap out the Plagueclaw Catapults for more Halbs.


So your comp should look like:
Tretch, a Plague Priest, and a Engineer
1 Death Runner (for that debuff)
2 Warp Lightning Cannons (maybe 3, any more than 4 is a bad idea)
14 Stormvermin w/ Halbs


That should deal with Hydras nicely. :P The Corsairs will go down to magic, the Darkshards aren't a problem compared to the Stormvermin (& summons should muck them up nicely: try not to engage, try to just force their skirmish to be always enabled so they're not shooting.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Cybroxis:

Yeah, I have ver little clue what to do here. I have 5 units of Stormvermin with Halberds, 2 Poison Winds, 2 warpfire throwers (I know, I didn’t listen to the experts, but they’re just so cool ;( ), 2 warp lightning cannons, 2 plagueclaws, 2 death runners, Tretch, a Plague Priest, and a Engineer. I have been trying to kill Malekith’s army with like 5 Hydras + 1 Manticore and some archers, corsairs, etc. The rest of his army is easy, but no matter how much I try, I can’t even kill 1 Hydra before it gets to my line, and at that point Malekith comes riding in on his chariot with Ride of the Valkyries playing in my head and smashes into my catapults, warp lightning cannons, and globadiers. I can try throwing Tretch in there and he can kill a couple of the hydras given enough time, but by that point the rest of his army is more of a problem and I have barely any units to deal with them. My lines have been as broken as my spirits.

On the bright side, if I exit out of this battle I can keep reliving the same experience over and over again (Legendary). Is there any way out of this situation or am I just doomed?

How do I counter Hydras when my anti-large units don’t do jack♥♥♥♥♥♥against them and I don’t have fire (warpfire doesnt count yay!)?

Honestly, I don't think your army is that horrible, but it's very all over the place, and if youre low on food and its nuking your leadership then youre just gonna get overrun. As far as my advice goes, I would say the following.

1)Ignore enemy infantry with everything except plagueclaws, which should focus enemy shooting.
2)Use summons if you have them to get more bodies in your opponents way.
3)Focus fire. Your WLC's are accurate and AI malekith probably doesnt have soul-stealer, so if you can bust his ass at range it can save you a lot of issues later. Hydra Leadership actually isnt very good(all things considered), so if you get rid of the lord, theyll rout more easily. Also, warpfire throwers are actually a really solid unit vs lightly armored large(much like irondrakes are). Use them to focus the hydras/manticore.
4)Space your shooting out, if theyre too clumped(which tends to happen with short ranged skaven shooting) then theyre gonna get bogged down all at once when your opponent breaks through your front line.
5)Keep your death runners in reserve as a blocking tool vs manticores/hydras that break through.

If you can/want to rework your comp

1)Ditch the death runners for more stormvermin, you need to hold. Death runners are a good support tool for aggressive compositions, especially non-AP ones(like sword+boardvermin or plaguemonk spam) but theyre basically useless in your current comp.
2)I'd consider sword+boarvermin over halberds. They wont do quite as much damage vs large, but lets face it, you arent counting on them to kill the large, they just need to hold, and shields to reduce incoming shooting damage+more MD is perfect for that.
3)Rat Ogres can be another good tool thanks to their high mass, though I assume you might not have the buildings for them.
4)Use the two empty slots either for more shooting or more stormvermin, you don't even have a full 20 stack, which for a faction like skaven is a real issue.