A Most Heinous Grudge!

[Congo_Jack]

Karak Hirn broke a non aggession pact and access treaty to sneak attack me (Clan Angrund) while I'm up to my beard in grobi scum and filthy rat things! How could a fellow Dawi comtemplate such a thing!? I'll not rest until every leader of this now disgraced clan is dead or made to take the slayer oath!

On a serious note I'm really not sure how I'm gonna deal with their attack. I'm trying to take Karak Norn back from Skarsnik with my one army but he has 4 whole regular (non-Waagh) stacks next to the city which has a garrison of 20. While Clan Skyre are on my borders in the south with 2 stacks.

I may actually lose my first ever game if I'm not careful.

[Mr. Wiggles]

Yeah clan angrund is a very difficult start. Tried it on very hard and got wrecked

[Congo_Jack]

Yeah I'm on V Hard now. My main issue before Karak Hirn attacked is that I just can't kill the goblins fast enough. I win a battle against 2 to 3 stacks in my turn then they attack me with 2 to 3 stacks and I win that battle but then my numbers are too few to seige Karak Norn (plus there is still a load of them left given its quite hard to finnish units off with dwarves withouth attacking twice in a turn) so I have to go back home to replenish my numbers while they do the same.

Rinse and repeat.

[狐神｜Kitsugami]

Stupid dwarf thing "eeeek" you are nothing to skaven, give up skaven are all powerful
your place is is in stomech, die die now pitiful dwarf thing, non insult skaven and live.

well dwarves are stupid and you are going agginst skaven, i am sure they saw that they did'nt stant a chance verus the skaven so they tried to win their favor by making you a mutual enemy and gaining their favor that way in hopes their skaven overlords would spare them.

that is actuly something i do all the time as it is hard fighting on all frounts all the time, I will start invaiding and area by looking at the relations of factions in the area and then pick a target or targets that will gain we favor with those i would wish to make allies from or at least would not want to make enemies from, or a least likly to back stab me after the mutual enemy is dead.

this is most easily done by find finding the strongest agresser in the area in all likly hood they are the enemy of mutiple minor powers, who would be very thankful for a nonagession pact and trading pact in return for you joining in on their war then after you gained the trust of the smaller factions and have a military allience you go about taking a very large portion of the conquested land using them to cover your back and apply pressure where needed to make you job easier then after the mutual enemy is dead you pick another of the factions who might just have some land you want and you convince their formor allies to join you in war agginst them since they like you alot more after you delt with their problem before and since they are now at war with their past allies you can safly attack and conqured them and actuly gain more favor with their formor allies that are now your allies, all you hvae to do is make sure you break off the treties after the period in witch breaking them will effect other nations has expired and yuor declire war before them and before you do anything aggisnt them. so that your allies wound hate you for attacking or tresspassing vs their ally or breaking your word.

you can use this method of making allies of whole areas by attacking their common enemy only to go to war with your new allies vs one of your new allies as much as you want if you do it right. keeping it so you only have to fight one faction at a time. it also makes it so you can actuly take over very large areaswith very small forces as you have your allies to defend your land as you go off and take more with only 1 or 2 armies, allowing you to actuly wage war in mutiple areas.
for example I have been waging a long grewling war on avelorn for a long time, and have had to devote many armies to do so as the debuffs skaven get on the island make it hard, i actuly would not even bother invading the island if the stupid high elves did not always declair war on me instantly after meeting but they do and they constantly invade my lands and attack unguarded areas and its annoying so i choose to kill them all. anyways i was forced to devote 6 armies to the island at first when they where all united under loremasters owning most of the island and some of the south west jungle. I also had to guard my borders from hexoatyl who was allies with elves and was on and off at war with me though was to dug in at their capital to clear out with the forces i had left, I also had 2 armies guarding my main reasons from chaos and the unlikely betrayal by the darkelves who loved me even though they had a -10 predudis agginst me on top of the other stuff for kicking their ass before we made peace. so i had little room to work with if i was to keep my economy growing and as such send 2 armies to brong the south western jungle under my control, witch was unsitable for skaven making it even harder on them, I also wanted to gain favor with clan pestilens so i desided to declair war on a ton of minor lizard men and make an allience with the undead and orks(the orks actuly owned alot of the area and where my past enemy but ally to the skaven i wanted to gain favor from), and the skaven. i took much of the area by kinning all the lizardmen well using the undead to clear out the high elves who posed a threat to my limited millitary presence their. by that time the mainland elves where much weaker and i could send some of the forces there to take hexacoatyle or whatever and the rest of the faction leaving way to the lower jungles filled with orks after the high elves where mostly deathwith we turned the undead agginst the orks in order to take the large area the ork had, and fortunetly by that time we also had confederated mutiple skaven factions it was great.

anyways so i totaly get how the dwarves made the dission to betray you as it would give them an opprounity to expand vs weak foes well gaining favor with those who could be a treat, in time they could gain power taking your settlments and then turn on the orks with their new power and mass even more power taking orkish lands, after witch they will knees before their skaven overlords and offer their further survices, but haveing destroyed the orks and other dwarves will have out lived their military use and their only use will be as food.
and thus after destroying the orks and fellow dwarves the dwarves saw the great honor in the only other survice they could provide the skaven and become their food. the end.

[Congo_Jack]

Crikey mate, that wasn't an easy read.

Yup that does seem like a very Skaveny tactic. But for a Dawi to break treaties and declare war on a fellow Dawi while they are fighting the mortal enemies of all Dawi is pretty unforgivable. They would be shunned by all as oath breakers and grobi lovers.

[Hyen《A》 ♧]

A fun way i once did is beeline straight for 8 Peaks with a single stack even on deficit and take the city. Don't care if Karak Izor is lost, that isn't your city anyway and you can reclaim it later. It was hard but taking it under 30 is worth it.

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by 絶望:

Stupid dwarf thing "eeeek" you are nothing to skaven, give up skaven are all powerful
your place is is in stomech, die die now pitiful dwarf thing, non insult skaven and live.

well dwarves are stupid and you are going agginst skaven, i am sure they saw that they did'nt stant a chance verus the skaven so they tried to win their favor by making you a mutual enemy and gaining their favor that way in hopes their skaven overlords would spare them.

that is actuly something i do all the time as it is hard fighting on all frounts all the time, I will start invaiding and area by looking at the relations of factions in the area and then pick a target or targets that will gain we favor with those i would wish to make allies from or at least would not want to make enemies from, or a least likly to back stab me after the mutual enemy is dead.

this is most easily done by find finding the strongest agresser in the area in all likly hood they are the enemy of mutiple minor powers, who would be very thankful for a nonagession pact and trading pact in return for you joining in on their war then after you gained the trust of the smaller factions and have a military allience you go about taking a very large portion of the conquested land using them to cover your back and apply pressure where needed to make you job easier then after the mutual enemy is dead you pick another of the factions who might just have some land you want and you convince their formor allies to join you in war agginst them since they like you alot more after you delt with their problem before and since they are now at war with their past allies you can safly attack and conqured them and actuly gain more favor with their formor allies that are now your allies, all you hvae to do is make sure you break off the treties after the period in witch breaking them will effect other nations has expired and yuor declire war before them and before you do anything aggisnt them. so that your allies wound hate you for attacking or tresspassing vs their ally or breaking your word.

you can use this method of making allies of whole areas by attacking their common enemy only to go to war with your new allies vs one of your new allies as much as you want if you do it right. keeping it so you only have to fight one faction at a time. it also makes it so you can actuly take over very large areaswith very small forces as you have your allies to defend your land as you go off and take more with only 1 or 2 armies, allowing you to actuly wage war in mutiple areas.
for example I have been waging a long grewling war on avelorn for a long time, and have had to devote many armies to do so as the debuffs skaven get on the island make it hard, i actuly would not even bother invading the island if the stupid high elves did not always declair war on me instantly after meeting but they do and they constantly invade my lands and attack unguarded areas and its annoying so i choose to kill them all. anyways i was forced to devote 6 armies to the island at first when they where all united under loremasters owning most of the island and some of the south west jungle. I also had to guard my borders from hexoatyl who was allies with elves and was on and off at war with me though was to dug in at their capital to clear out with the forces i had left, I also had 2 armies guarding my main reasons from chaos and the unlikely betrayal by the darkelves who loved me even though they had a -10 predudis agginst me on top of the other stuff for kicking their ass before we made peace. so i had little room to work with if i was to keep my economy growing and as such send 2 armies to brong the south western jungle under my control, witch was unsitable for skaven making it even harder on them, I also wanted to gain favor with clan pestilens so i desided to declair war on a ton of minor lizard men and make an allience with the undead and orks(the orks actuly owned alot of the area and where my past enemy but ally to the skaven i wanted to gain favor from), and the skaven. i took much of the area by kinning all the lizardmen well using the undead to clear out the high elves who posed a threat to my limited millitary presence their. by that time the mainland elves where much weaker and i could send some of the forces there to take hexacoatyle or whatever and the rest of the faction leaving way to the lower jungles filled with orks after the high elves where mostly deathwith we turned the undead agginst the orks in order to take the large area the ork had, and fortunetly by that time we also had confederated mutiple skaven factions it was great.

anyways so i totaly get how the dwarves made the dission to betray you as it would give them an opprounity to expand vs weak foes well gaining favor with those who could be a treat, in time they could gain power taking your settlments and then turn on the orks with their new power and mass even more power taking orkish lands, after witch they will knees before their skaven overlords and offer their further survices, but haveing destroyed the orks and other dwarves will have out lived their military use and their only use will be as food.
and thus after destroying the orks and fellow dwarves the dwarves saw the great honor in the only other survice they could provide the skaven and become their food. the end.

Holy crap this wall is unbreakable give up now

[Wh♂♂par]

I once thought Karak Hirn is OK. But they're not. Never are they OK. Useless as an ally. Super-annoying as a surprise enemy. It's just amplified in it's disappointment by Hirn being the short form of Gehirn, which is German for brain.

[Congo_Jack]

I managed to get back from beating Skarsnik just in time to stop Karak Brain from from taking my capital. Then I got peace with them and made them pay me 10,000 for their crimes mostly because the VCs and Von Carsteins are at my northern border and at war with me.

I might follow your advice Hyen《A》♧ and go for 8 Peaks now. My army is veteran enough to take on most enemies. If I stay to fight off the Zanganaz and Rats I could get bogged down for another 40 turns or more.

[Hyen《A》 ♧]

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

I once thought Karak Hirn is OK. But they're not. Never are they OK. Useless as an ally. Super-annoying as a surprise enemy. It's just amplified in it's disappointment by Hirn being the short form of Gehirn, which is German for brain.

Haha agreed. Every playthrough they'll just attack me for no damn reason, even as the Empire. I'm gonna be calling them Karak Half-brain from now on thanks.

Originally posted by Congo_Jack:

I might follow your advice Hyen《A》♧ and go for 8 Peaks now. My army is veteran enough to take on most enemies. If I stay to fight off the Zanganaz and Rats I could get bogged down for another 40 turns or more.

Just be careful. Make a save before you start your all or nothing journey cuz if you can't take 8 Peaks you will lose. And may i suggest using the ghosts to missile kite the enemy artillery before engaging.

[Congo_Jack]

Sounds like good advice. Yep it could be a suicide mission especially if I meet Grimgor and co on the way to 8 peaks but I have a decent army.

Belagar ~ Level 20 (Talisman ~ 20 Ward Save, Healing Potion, average weapon)
4 Ancestor Ghosts (all have resistance to magic magic items)
1 Hammerers (1 gold chevron experience)
6 Dwarf Warriors (2 silver or higher)
6 Bugmans Rangers (all 3 silver)
2 Grudgthrowers (1 gold)

Level 3 upgrades to Dwarf warriors, Ranger units and Vigour loss in Belegars red skill tree.

Should be fun anyway. Its always good to have a challenge.

[Hyen《A》 ♧]

Originally posted by Congo_Jack:

Sounds like good advice. Yep it could be a suicide mission especially if I meet Grimgor and co on the way to 8 peaks but I have a decent army.

Belagar ~ Level 20 (Talisman ~ 20 Ward Save, Healing Potion, average weapon)
4 Ancestor Ghosts (all have resistance to magic magic items)
1 Hammerers (1 gold chevron experience)
6 Dwarf Warriors (2 silver or higher)
6 Bugmans Rangers (all 3 silver)
2 Grudgthrowers (1 gold)

Level 3 upgrades to Dwarf warriors, Ranger units and Vigour loss in Belegars red skill tree.

Should be fun anyway. Its always good to have a challenge.

Yeah that's a decent army, alright. For the most part, Grimgor normally shouldn't be an ally of Skarsnik yet or the mutinuous gits so you can take them one by one, which shouldn't be too hard. And lightning strike is useful when fighting Grimgor and co. Good luck. Keep us updated on the war.

[RCMidas]

If you do lose, think about blitzing Skarsnik from turn 1 on future playthroughs. Move to grab Karak Azgaraz whilst he's away - if he heads through Wissenland, Underway through Athel Loren; if he heads for Grimhold, circle through Wissenland, and so forth.

Sack them, loot+occupy, abandon them to rebels. Just keep taking his settlements out from under him and let a lack of funds and territory eat away at his troops. Broken Nose may try its luck for you, but you should have plenty of time to smash them even if they starting sieging Karak Izor.

If you do end up fighting him unexpectedly, such as an Underway interception, use your ghostly thanes to engage his Arachnorok and the others to terrify him and his goblins into fleeing off the map. With your living troops, just hold the line until the greenies break.

Don't worry about upsetting Wissenland or the WElfs, as neither will tend to move much out of their provinces (the former because they are usually dealing with the Skullsmasherz), and all your violence against Skarsnik's settlements will endear you to Karak Norn and Karak Hirn.

[Hyen《A》 ♧]

This is why i love Warhammer. So many possibilities and replay value.

[Congo_Jack]

Well I haven't taken 8 Peaks yet. They had 3 armies there and I don't have Lightning Strike so I tried to lure them out to attack me but they wouldn't.

I decided to take Black Crag/Karak Drazh instead as there were no Greenskin armies about (I was already at war with them) then I could use its buildings and money from its gold mine to build another smaller army to help me take 8 Peaks.

Unfortunately then the Greenskins confederated with Wurzags boys to make the most powerful faction around. So I'm now fighting a seemingly endless supply of Greenskin armies.

On the up side I have a strong base right next to 8 Peaks and a 12 stack army protecting it while Belagar kills Urki scum in the mountains.