Who's the better horde faction: chaos or beastman? And why?

[Matt [Reckless Boi]]

I've just played chaos between the two, and they are cool and all but lacks in ranged option and the attrition between hordes really limits the variety of unit you can use ( to the point of just being chosen spam with a bit of horses for flavor).

Never played the beastman tho and wanted to know which of the two faction does horde better.

Thanks!

[zacharyb]

Imo Beastmen are better, they can use Beastpaths and the Beastman attack ambush and regular ambush stance. This allows them to do hit and run attacks and get out of bad situations.

Chaos on the otherhand don't have any of the above which means that if they get surrounded they have to fight their way out.

[BigRockWall]

Chaos is pretty straight forward. You already know what they do

Beastmen have some unique horde mechanics. Ambush attacks, encampment is hidden, more diverse roster.

Nakai is also a horde, and land he razed turns into settlements owned by a vassal. Less whack a mole from people settling all the cities you raze, and has full lizardman roster.

Wood elves I consider to be the strongest horde faction. Can recruit half a stack at a time via global recruitment mid game and on, and also no whack a mole because the cities they take turn into outposts that you still own

[Inardesco]

Nakai

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by BigRockWall:

Chaos is pretty straight forward. You already know what they do

Beastmen have some unique horde mechanics. Ambush attacks, encampment is hidden, more diverse roster.

Nakai is also a horde, and land he razed turns into settlements owned by a vassal. Less whack a mole from people settling all the cities you raze, and has full lizardman roster.

Wood elves I consider to be the strongest horde faction. Can recruit half a stack at a time via global recruitment mid game and on, and also no whack a mole because the cities they take turn into outposts that you still own

I'd argue Vampire Coast is the best Horde faction with being able to recruit an almost whole stack of Necrofex Colossus in 1 turn while also being extremely cheap.

[Teh_Diplomat]

Vanilla? Then I'm choosing Chaos and going with Kholek Memeater. I still need full mobility horde encampment mod (I mean the Pirates get to with their hybrid Lords, so why not Chaos?)



If I'm running SFO, then the Beastmen, as their overhaul is significant and meaningful.

Think of SFO as Divide et Impera (DeI) from Rome 2 if you're unfamiliar with the SFO mod. Buildings - and their respective level; now provide bonuses, but penalties as well, research tree is completely reworked.

Furthermore, and again similar to DeI; elite units are ELITE this time around.

[BigRockWall]

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Originally posted by BigRockWall:

Chaos is pretty straight forward. You already know what they do

Beastmen have some unique horde mechanics. Ambush attacks, encampment is hidden, more diverse roster.

Nakai is also a horde, and land he razed turns into settlements owned by a vassal. Less whack a mole from people settling all the cities you raze, and has full lizardman roster.

Wood elves I consider to be the strongest horde faction. Can recruit half a stack at a time via global recruitment mid game and on, and also no whack a mole because the cities they take turn into outposts that you still own

I'd argue Vampire Coast is the best Horde faction with being able to recruit an almost whole stack of Necrofex Colossus in 1 turn while also being extremely cheap.

True, but every wood elf lord can, where as only the legendary ones can play like hordes as vampirates.

I LOVE vampirates too btw

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by BigRockWall:

Originally posted by zacharyb:

I'd argue Vampire Coast is the best Horde faction with being able to recruit an almost whole stack of Necrofex Colossus in 1 turn while also being extremely cheap.

True, but every wood elf lord can, where as only the legendary ones can play like hordes as vampirates.

I LOVE vampirates too btw

Vampirates can also settle everywhere though and make actual settlements, have pirate coves and treasure hunts, and as Vampirates you have your legendary lord plus the 4 you get from your technology tree. That means 5 stacks of self sustaining armies of Necrofex Colossus.

[Totally Not Myers]

I personally feel Beastmen are better as a horde faction because they're able to avoid conflict more easily than Chaos, and are able to ambush as easily as Skaven and better than even Lizardmen in jungle terrain.

[RCMidas]

On the other hand, Chaos doesn't WANT to avoid combat except for the first dozen or so turns, seeing as how they are brutally, ridiculously powerful.

[BigRockWall]

Chaos can have a full stack of chaos warriors by turn 7 or so, and can use what they start with to be making progress while it fills. No reason to avoid combat early

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by BigRockWall:

Chaos can have a full stack of chaos warriors by turn 7 or so, and can use what they start with to be making progress while it fills. No reason to avoid combat early

When you play Very Hard and the enemy has way more armies than you and techs up faster, ya you kind of do need to avoid combat.

[Tricks]

Indeed, Beastmen are better at sneaking around... which is good, because in early game your fighting strength as beastmen is pathetic. In comparison Chaos start out with a strong army and LLs that are straight up better.

But yeah there are other factions who make better hordes than either chaos or beastmen. Because the best horde is a hybrid horde. The original horde mechanics are just not adequate in ME.

Not to mention the other horde factions like Nakai and VC actually have other interesting mechanics going for them. Beastmen mechanics are pretty basic and Chaos have no unique mechanics whatsoever. They get dull pretty fast.

[zacharyb]

Originally posted by Tricks:

Indeed, Beastmen are better at sneaking around... which is good, because in early game your fighting strength as beastmen is pathetic. In comparison Chaos start out with a strong army and LLs that are straight up better.

But yeah there are other factions who make better hordes than either chaos or beastmen. Because the best horde is a hybrid horde. The original horde mechanics are just not adequate in ME.

Not to mention the other horde factions like Nakai and VC actually have other interesting mechanics going for them. Beastmen mechanics are pretty basic and Chaos have no unique mechanics whatsoever. They get dull pretty fast.

Khazrak even without all of his combat buffs is very powerful, if you add the Sword of Khaine he becomes pretty godly.

[Totally Not Myers]

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Originally posted by Tricks:

Indeed, Beastmen are better at sneaking around... which is good, because in early game your fighting strength as beastmen is pathetic. In comparison Chaos start out with a strong army and LLs that are straight up better.

But yeah there are other factions who make better hordes than either chaos or beastmen. Because the best horde is a hybrid horde. The original horde mechanics are just not adequate in ME.

Not to mention the other horde factions like Nakai and VC actually have other interesting mechanics going for them. Beastmen mechanics are pretty basic and Chaos have no unique mechanics whatsoever. They get dull pretty fast.

Khazrak even without all of his combat buffs is very powerful, if you add the Sword of Khaine he becomes pretty godly.

All you need is just 4 units of minotaurs with shields and you've almost won the campaign lol.

[Tricks]

Originally posted by zacharyb:

Khazrak even without all of his combat buffs is very powerful, if you add the Sword of Khaine he becomes pretty godly.

Oh yeah I'll agree with that. His charge bonus is insane if you give him his chariot as well. But in early game I think Archaon is stronger, and Kholek, well, he's Kholek. That being said I'm not looking at their stats while I make these claims rather I'm just going by how I remember him performing at the start of the campaign. So I could be talking out of my ass here.

Originally posted by Not Myers:

All you need is just 4 units of minotaurs with shields and you've almost won the campaign lol.

Minotaurs are really the only reason to play Beastmen. Which is why I've never played as Morghur.