Who would win lore wise

[GIBBYDAMAN]

a 10000 year old vampire or a 10000 year old Elve (it can be any race of elves)

[Voxrox]

Elves - Vampires by default are a little too stupid ... and have way too many weaknesses

[Hieronymous]

What kind of fight? If it's some kind of a contest of courtly manners, or a dainty dance-off, or perhaps even a poetry slam, it's the elf every time.

If they have to, like, touch and stuff? Not sure how an elf wins that one.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by Voxrox:

Elves - Vampires by default are a little too stupid ... and have way too many weaknesses

Spoken like a true elf, its always pride before the fall and many elfs got a overblown ego while only a few can match what they say.

[Wyvern]

Barring magical shenanigans or mounts at play, this one easily goes to vampires. If we go by TT, the generic vampire unit(blood knights) are both stronger and tougher than even elf lords, and their WS is on par or better than everyone except swordmasters. Generic vampire lords match generic high elf princes for WS and have better speed, strength and toughness.

If we go by legendary heroes, someone like Abhorash or Green Knight is generally considered the best there was, even if Tyrion may now be the best living, though given the prevalence of plot armor and what not, im not a huge fan of using legendaries as a point of reference of anything.

Finally there's a pretty straightforward tiering of heavy cavalry in the WHF world, and elves dont even make the top 3, while vampire counts are strongly competing for first against grails. In fact, the top 3 spots are taken by roid raged humans of various forms(grails, vampires and chaos knights). There's no discernible infantry tiering to go off of, but I think that's a pretty good indicator as well.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by ⎛⎝ Yes ⎠⎞:

Originally posted by Dr. Uncredible:

Unless other factors are included, the vampire.
Elves are like humans, but a bit more frail and agile and dextrous.
Vampires are insanely strong, naturaly magical (comes with the curse), feel no pain, incredibly tricky to destroy, I -think- they´re supernaturally fast as well.
Oh, and if they get their teeth in they can self-heal on top of that.

Are they really more frail tho?
Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen any lore that supports that?

Not sure about lore, but in TT generic humans and elves(state troops, knights, sea guard, phoenix guard etc) have the same toughness at 3. That said, even the toughest unaugmented elves(Tyrion for example) are only T3, while every empire character except the generic wizard and master engineer is T4. Malekith is, as far as im aware, the only elf character with a T4.

[Humble]

Originally posted by mystemacc:

Vampires have superpowers and senses that no amount of training can match.

Well, vampires still need training vs other super power to get better training, maybe more older vampire is, stronger, but I'm not sure about that part. Sure vampire don't need training vs plain human, but still need training vs other super power since warhammer had a lot of difference superpower, same thing Darth Vader from star war, sure he had powerful force, but he wasn't training full and look what happen, he lost some force and become machines part because he take granted, prideful and didn't use full training with humble. Petty much same appy to any who are super power, not just vampires but vampire could afford to rise from dead over and over again, but vampire as dead is more danger than vampire as live because vampire as dead can't control anything while he is sleeping till he is wake up from dead.

Unless one superpower is true immortal and and true indestructible, I guess that could afford, but if something like happen like black hole even it's won't destory that superpower had it, but got stuck and imprisonment or throw out to other strange world, other strange universe and can't go back to old well know world and universe, that's might be very uncomfortable for immortal with indestructible unless they had flying power like superman and ability to outrun black hole's sucking, faster than light.

[Free Luigi M.]

Originally posted by Locklave:

The real question being asked is really if a human that has become a vampire and elf lived 10,000 years who would be more dangerous.

Humans can compete with elves in combat having lived a tiny fraction of their life span, if humans could live the same life span there would be NO CONTEST. A vampire is just a human with unnatural power in even more brutal conditions then humans that could already compete.

Remember this is assuming they lived the same years. Odds are a Vampire didn't spend 500 years of that in front of a mirror. Do vamps have a reflection in Warhammer?

Not a realistic argument. The only reason humans can compete with elves in combat is because otherwise there would be no balance in the game. If they lived as long as elves, they would still be on the level they always are.

Originally posted by JediMasterDraco:

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

It really depends on the individual elf or vampire. Some elves are way stronger than most vampires. Some vampires are stronger than most elves.
Malekith is the oldest elf alive. Given his combination of incredible martial and magical skill and knowledge, I don't think there is any vampire that can take him on.

I'd say Abhorash the first of the Blood Dragons could give Malekith a run for his money. He killed a very old and very powerful dragon in single combat and from drinking it's blood he became the only vampire to be liberated from the Red Thirst.

Dubious. He is likely the strongest fighter among vampires, but he is a special case. And even then, Malekith would likely win. Malekith not only is an exceptional fighter, but he has hardly matched arcane knowledge and power on his side. Without mentioning "ultimate" Malekith, imbued with the power of Asurian. Who would definitely win over Abhorash.
If we also consider Tyrion's martial prowess, then it's evident elves count the more numerous top-tier warriors in their ranks.

[CorruptDead1342]

I think the elve would win but just because the vampires ego would get them killed

[Humble]

Originally posted by ⎛⎝ Yes ⎠⎞:

Originally posted by Humble:

Well, vampires still need training vs other super power to get better training, maybe more older vampire is, stronger, but I'm not sure about that part. Sure vampire don't need training vs plain human, but still need training vs other super power since warhammer had a lot of difference superpower, same thing Darth Vader from star war, sure he had powerful force, but he wasn't training full and look what happen, he lost some force and become machines part because he take granted, prideful and didn't use full training with humble. Petty much same appy to any who are super power, not just vampires but vampire could afford to rise from dead over and over again, but vampire as dead is more danger than vampire as live because vampire as dead can't control anything while he is sleeping till he is wake up from dead.

Unless one superpower is true immortal and and true indestructible, I guess that could afford, but if something like happen like black hole even it's won't destory that superpower had it, but got stuck and imprisonment or throw out to other strange world, other strange universe and can't go back to old well know world and universe, that's might be very uncomfortable for immortal with indestructible unless they had flying power like superman and ability to outrun black hole's sucking, faster than light.

As far as I understand the older Vampires are stronger because their '' blood '' is closer to Neferata.
There are bloodlines, and the closer you're to Neferata in your bloodline the stronger you are.
So the curse is '' bound '' more strongly to them, while in later generations it sorta wanes.

It's like if Neferata herself turned you then you're going to be '' fully powered '' but then when that person turns someone and then the next and the next and the next etc they become weaker because the connection isn't as strong.

So basic Neferata is strongest vampire because she is prime essential core, is that mean if she got killed, all of her bloodline vampire, along vlad, mannfred, all other vampire will got killed similar like original vampire tv series unless there some kind of magic make weaker or lower vampire free from older vampire, but Mannfred don't see die when vlad got killed? I wonder how they balance her if they add her in warhammer 3, of course people might not happy if she is weak or nerfed in gameplay future.

[Jakal, Lady kisser]

if the elf is a wizard, the elf. if not, the vampire. high magic splats vampires like a bug zapper.

[fgalkin]

Originally posted by Haggord:

Elves because deux ex machina doesn't allow bad guys to win in warhammer

*laughs in End Times *

[fgalkin]

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Originally posted by Locklave:

The real question being asked is really if a human that has become a vampire and elf lived 10,000 years who would be more dangerous.

Humans can compete with elves in combat having lived a tiny fraction of their life span, if humans could live the same life span there would be NO CONTEST. A vampire is just a human with unnatural power in even more brutal conditions then humans that could already compete.

Remember this is assuming they lived the same years. Odds are a Vampire didn't spend 500 years of that in front of a mirror. Do vamps have a reflection in Warhammer?

Not a realistic argument. The only reason humans can compete with elves in combat is because otherwise there would be no balance in the game. If they lived as long as elves, they would still be on the level they always are.

Originally posted by JediMasterDraco:

I'd say Abhorash the first of the Blood Dragons could give Malekith a run for his money. He killed a very old and very powerful dragon in single combat and from drinking it's blood he became the only vampire to be liberated from the Red Thirst.

Dubious. He is likely the strongest fighter among vampires, but he is a special case. And even then, Malekith would likely win. Malekith not only is an exceptional fighter, but he has hardly matched arcane knowledge and power on his side. Without mentioning "ultimate" Malekith, imbued with the power of Asurian. Who would definitely win over Abhorash.
If we also consider Tyrion's martial prowess, then it's evident elves count the more numerous top-tier warriors in their ranks.

From Josh Reynolds (Black Library writer):

I am trying to gauge Abhorash's power so lets say we put him in a series of matches vs other famous duelists -Vlad,Skulltaker, Grimgor, Tyrion, Gotrek Gurnison, Ka'Bhanda, Sigmar -how many of those would he beat 1 vs 1? Is he powerful enough to beat magic users like Teclis, Nagash, Maleketh ect?

First, bear in mind, that Abhorash is the greatest warrior the world has ever seen. He's the figurative embodiment of war itself. He's a guy who has done nothing but fight for over a thousand years. No rest, no sleep, no taking a holiday. Just war. He's as close to a two-legged engine of destruction as the Old World gets.

Too, a fight scene depends on context just as much as any other narrative device. There's no such thing as a fight in a vacuum, unless you're writing science-fiction. All of these fights depend on location, whether the combatants have had to fight through armies of mooks, the stakes, etc. F'r instance, if it's a G&F novel the fight happens in, Gotrek wins.

Vlad would know better than to fight him. And if he did, he'd wake up later, after his ring has resurrected him and wonder why he'd done it.

Abhorash would beat Grimgor handily, once he figured out how to put him down for keeps. Grimgor, Incarnate of Beasts would be tougher, but Archaon did it, and Abhorash is better than Archaon so...yeah. There is no way, short of Gork himself showing up, that Grimgor wins.

Gotrek would be more of the same...he's not unbeatable, he's just really hard to keep down. Abhorash would win that one, but he'd know he'd been in a fight. The only way I can see the fight going to Gotrek involves him having both of Grimnir's axes and a power-up...then Gotrek wins. Or it's in a G&F book, as I said, then Gotrek wins after a forty-page fight scene.

Tyrion could hold his own. It'd be a stalemate, until one or the other lost their temper and then it's anybody's guess, with an edge to Abhorash, due to the whole vampire thing.

Sigmar...is tricky. Is it Sigmar Ascended, or just Emperor Sigmar? If it's the former, Abhorash loses, eventually. If its the latter, Abhorash...might still lose. We don't know how his duel with Gilles turned out, after all, way back when. If Gilles could have beaten him, then Sigmar might have been able to do so as well. At best, though, I think it's a grueling stalemate.

Ka' Bhanda and Skulltaker pose similar quandaries...Abhorash is the figurative embodiment of war, but they're literally shards of the god of war and slaughter. In a clench, I'd say Abhorash trucks Skulltaker. He'd also splat a regular bloodthirster, if it came to that. But Ka'Bhanda is something else. It took ALL of the Incarnates to wear him down. That one would be a squeaker I think. It could go either way, with an edge to Ka'Bhanda.

Magic users, well, if they ganged up on him, yeah. One on one, Nagash wins. He knows how to unmake vampires, though I'm betting Abhorash would leave a few scars. Teclis and Malekith, much like Tyrion depends on who keeps their head. Abhorash isn't as cunning as Malekith or as smart as Teclis, but then, he doesn't need to be. If he gets close, they lose. If they can keep him guessing, and at a distance, then they win.

https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/josh-reynolds-abhorash-info.29143/

[LuciferMorningStar]

years for elves dont matter look at Malekith hes 5k old and hes powerful because of the blood of anerian (cant spell that) but with a 10k old vampire we are talking about a vampire that lived in nehekara aka someone like Vlad, Aborash and Neferata. The other bloodlines are weaker and their original are dead. The Vampire would win since the elves are quick and benefit from that in fights but the vampires are faster, stronger and most would be better fighter all over. But lets say its just some old Von carstein vampire= dead elve, old Lhamian vampire elve dead and then against a blood dragon= elf super dead and the 2 other bloodlines would either kill through brute strength and speed (strigoi) and necrarch (cant spell that) would nuke the elf with spells. The elf dosent stand a chance his only hope would be a writer.

[archmag]

Originally posted by Dr. Uncredible:

Unless other factors are included, the vampire.
Elves are like humans, but a bit more frail and agile and dextrous.
Vampires are insanely strong, naturaly magical (comes with the curse), feel no pain, incredibly tricky to destroy, I -think- they´re supernaturally fast as well.
Oh, and if they get their teeth in they can self-heal on top of that.

Maybe it is 10000 years old frail mute vampire without teeth vs 10000 years old heavily built muscular tall elf with magical abilities?

I don't think age is enough to decide how strong a person is. Even in real life one 60 years old person is totally different from another 60 years old.

So it is not "unless other factors are included", it is "other factors except age should be considered to give a reasonable answer".

[Free Luigi M.]

Originally posted by fgalkin:

Originally posted by Joe Chip:

Not a realistic argument. The only reason humans can compete with elves in combat is because otherwise there would be no balance in the game. If they lived as long as elves, they would still be on the level they always are.



Dubious. He is likely the strongest fighter among vampires, but he is a special case. And even then, Malekith would likely win. Malekith not only is an exceptional fighter, but he has hardly matched arcane knowledge and power on his side. Without mentioning "ultimate" Malekith, imbued with the power of Asurian. Who would definitely win over Abhorash.
If we also consider Tyrion's martial prowess, then it's evident elves count the more numerous top-tier warriors in their ranks.

From Josh Reynolds (Black Library writer):

I am trying to gauge Abhorash's power so lets say we put him in a series of matches vs other famous duelists -Vlad,Skulltaker, Grimgor, Tyrion, Gotrek Gurnison, Ka'Bhanda, Sigmar -how many of those would he beat 1 vs 1? Is he powerful enough to beat magic users like Teclis, Nagash, Maleketh ect?

First, bear in mind, that Abhorash is the greatest warrior the world has ever seen. He's the figurative embodiment of war itself. He's a guy who has done nothing but fight for over a thousand years. No rest, no sleep, no taking a holiday. Just war. He's as close to a two-legged engine of destruction as the Old World gets.

Too, a fight scene depends on context just as much as any other narrative device. There's no such thing as a fight in a vacuum, unless you're writing science-fiction. All of these fights depend on location, whether the combatants have had to fight through armies of mooks, the stakes, etc. F'r instance, if it's a G&F novel the fight happens in, Gotrek wins.

Vlad would know better than to fight him. And if he did, he'd wake up later, after his ring has resurrected him and wonder why he'd done it.

Abhorash would beat Grimgor handily, once he figured out how to put him down for keeps. Grimgor, Incarnate of Beasts would be tougher, but Archaon did it, and Abhorash is better than Archaon so...yeah. There is no way, short of Gork himself showing up, that Grimgor wins.

Gotrek would be more of the same...he's not unbeatable, he's just really hard to keep down. Abhorash would win that one, but he'd know he'd been in a fight. The only way I can see the fight going to Gotrek involves him having both of Grimnir's axes and a power-up...then Gotrek wins. Or it's in a G&F book, as I said, then Gotrek wins after a forty-page fight scene.

Tyrion could hold his own. It'd be a stalemate, until one or the other lost their temper and then it's anybody's guess, with an edge to Abhorash, due to the whole vampire thing.

Sigmar...is tricky. Is it Sigmar Ascended, or just Emperor Sigmar? If it's the former, Abhorash loses, eventually. If its the latter, Abhorash...might still lose. We don't know how his duel with Gilles turned out, after all, way back when. If Gilles could have beaten him, then Sigmar might have been able to do so as well. At best, though, I think it's a grueling stalemate.

Ka' Bhanda and Skulltaker pose similar quandaries...Abhorash is the figurative embodiment of war, but they're literally shards of the god of war and slaughter. In a clench, I'd say Abhorash trucks Skulltaker. He'd also splat a regular bloodthirster, if it came to that. But Ka'Bhanda is something else. It took ALL of the Incarnates to wear him down. That one would be a squeaker I think. It could go either way, with an edge to Ka'Bhanda.

Magic users, well, if they ganged up on him, yeah. One on one, Nagash wins. He knows how to unmake vampires, though I'm betting Abhorash would leave a few scars. Teclis and Malekith, much like Tyrion depends on who keeps their head. Abhorash isn't as cunning as Malekith or as smart as Teclis, but then, he doesn't need to be. If he gets close, they lose. If they can keep him guessing, and at a distance, then they win.

https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/josh-reynolds-abhorash-info.29143/

Nice one. So my suppositions were correct.
Also, Tyrion + Sword of Khaine and Malekith + Asurian should both be stronger than Abhorash.