Waaghs are useless...well, more like ORKS are useless

[Linarkspain]

I know theres an Ork update coming soon, but it baffles me a bit that CA just ignored orks for so long. They are by far the worst faction in the game. Except black orks, their infantry sucks insanely. Ork boys never seem like brutish fighters, they loose against basically any other infantry in the game. Their cavalry is laughable. Their monsters are just decent. And even black orks are very low cost effective units. Their upkeep is insane and they aren't worth that much, only Krimson Killerz work well. Their magic is amongst the worse of the game. Their heroes are mediocre.
But they have Waaaaaaghs, right? Na, another useless piece on the ork campaign. I'm not sure if it's intended, but it seems the Waaagh AI will loose most battles 1 vs 1. I just had one full Waaagh stack, with several big uns, trolls, and boar big uns in it, all above 5 ribbons, loose to Malekith and a basic infantry stack of 12, with 3 ribbons max. And I've seen even worse cases.
Really hope this update comes fast, cause each time I try an ork campaign I can't stop thinking "wth is wrong with CA and orks".

[Inardesco]

March/april mosy likely

[Wh♂♂par]

Originally posted by lobo_simao:

... I can't stop thinking "wth is wrong with CA and orks".

*Warriors of Chaos staring from the basement's doorframe*
Can we come out yet?

-

NO!

[ArchaicReaper]

I cannot stress this enough. Orcs. They are orcs. Orks only exist in space, specifically in the grim darkness of the far future. Here on fantasy ground we have orcs.

[fabiletti96]

they need more units and yes they should seem more like brutish fighters many factions lack lots of units lords and heroes but the orcs feel very weak, often they feel weaker than skaven infantry which i think is not accurate an orc boy should squash imperial troops heads with one hand

[Linarkspain]

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

Originally posted by lobo_simao:

... I can't stop thinking "wth is wrong with CA and orks".

*Warriors of Chaos staring from the basement's doorframe*
Can we come out yet?

-

NO!

Chaos has excelent skirmisher cavalry and at least its infantry works! It's not as bad as orcs!

Originally posted by ArchaicReaper:

I cannot stress this enough. Orcs. They are orcs. Orks only exist in space, specifically in the grim darkness of the far future. Here on fantasy ground we have orcs.

I was playing some 40k game this evening and got confused :P

Originally posted by fabiletti96:

they need more units and yes they should seem more like brutish fighters many factions lack lots of units lords and heroes but the orcs feel very weak, often they feel weaker than skaven infantry which i think is not accurate an orc boy should squash imperial troops heads with one hand

That's the thing. Lorewise, orcs have twice the strength of a grown human soldier and in most scenarios will beat them 1 vs 1. But in WH 2 orcs perform like bigger skaven.

[Ashantai]

It's funny really, I see people in MP having success with Greenskins but they use units you'd rarely, if ever use, in campaign.

The problem I think is that GS have been eclipsed by almost everyone else. In almost every area they are just worse than other races.
For example, other than Black Orcs and Wurrzag's savage orcs their infantry is really just bad. It's certainly not as good as it should be.

In the campaign Waaagh (the skill) is hard to get considering it's the most important and unique ability for GS. You need to be at least level 11/12 to get it, and that's if you don't spend any points on route marcher or buffing the army or mounts.

It needs to be a top bar gold skill available about level 6-8 because it is so important.

The tech tree is an utter mess. Half the skills are useless, and even unlocking any tech relies on a tier 3 building meaning you won't even get any tech until turn 20-30. Even when you do it's not worth it. Sure, orcs are hardly research scientists, but Beastmen have a better tech tree based on natural evolution.

The waaagh armies need to be reworked because for the player they are utterly infuriating. You can't control them properly so they tend to death charge and get wiped out for no reason, or lurk around uselessly.
A solution might be to provide armies like the Blood Voyages for the Hellebron, with a random group of low upkeep units which don't replenish. Obviously not unbreakable, but perhaps with some combat buffs. That'd make them actually useful.
Even rework fightiness as a faction wide meter like chivalry or infamy which you can spend to spawn waaagh armies, but which also gives buffs to all your armies the higher it gets. That gives a reason to fight and win battles.

[Linarkspain]

Thing is, everything seems to have been made to push orcs campaign back:
- Fightiness means you got to be very aggresive, and that isn't always an option.
- The research tree requires tier 3 buildings TO START (because reasons) and each research takes 5% of your research rate.
- Your army is suposedly focused on infantry, but all other factions except bretonnia and ARGUABLY skaven have better infantry. Beastmen work 100 times better as charge infantry focused faction.
- Your archers and cavalry are pretty mediocre, except spider rider archers. That means you gotta relay a lot on your monsters and infantry. Probably cause the main focus was thrown towards infantry, but as we can see, they totally made infantry mediocre at best, and orc monster units are totally out matched by other factions. Giants are one of the worst monsters in the game. Trolls are weak versions of Ice or Chaos Trolls and can't compete with most monstruous infantry from other factions. The Aranoch Spider is the only good monster they have, and it eats ranged fire easilly due to its huge size. Mods like SFO add Colossal Squigs, but they are made of wet tissue paper, and Feral Wyverns, which should be a MUST for orc factions.
- Orcs economy is pretty mediocre.
- Not many unit options.
- Surrounded by very powerful factions (dwarves are a pain to deal at start and Khemri/Queek Headtaker are normally top 5 AI factions on ME campaigns)

[Jicho87]

No they are 3rd worst faction, get it right.

[Dr. Uncredible]

"Really hope this update comes fast, cause each time I try an ork campaign I can't stop thinking "wth is wrong with CA and orks"."

There isn´t anything inherently wrong with the orcs (apart from their science), they´re just the only major race that´s still stuck with their TWW 1 rules while all of their neighbours got fancy updates and a new coat of paint.

What I´m saying is, just be patient, if the coming update doesn´t sort them out, THEN we can start grumbling.

[Gnarl]

On the tabletop what makes Greenskins better than Skaven?

I like some of their spells, but I don't see them as being superior in any other way. They can only field so many Black Orcs right?

[RED /(Weber)\]

Were all stuck waiting for the rework

[Happy]

If they get a Vortex campaign, I could see ''Waaghh'' being potentially used as a rite fore them. Pay x amount of money, get a giant Waaagh going, and be able to control it, like the Lizardmen rite that spawns a meaty Dino stack. I'd like to see that. And snotling pump wagons.

[Father Ribs]

Originally posted by ArchaicReaper:

I cannot stress this enough. Orcs. They are orcs. Orks only exist in space, specifically in the grim darkness of the far future. Here on fantasy ground we have orcs.

Or Orruk, if you play the Pro Wrestling Sigmar game. We don't go there though...it's a silly place.

[Father Ribs]

Originally posted by Gnarl:

On the tabletop what makes Greenskins better than Skaven?

I like some of their spells, but I don't see them as being superior in any other way. They can only field so many Black Orcs right?

There was a time, and it's back in the shadowy mists of antiquity...but there was a time when people played armies because they liked the army, and not the meta. Orcs used to be fun, and their snotling slaves came up with the most amusing war machines. Suicide whirling fanatics. Giant Foot Spell. (40k Orks were really fun...Orks failed in the most spectacular and amusing ways almost every diceroll.)

Not me though; too many damn models to paint. I think some folks just buy the most powerful doodads (in 40k, I won't touch Sigmar) so they only have to paint five models.

Orcs had this kind of gleeful, enthusiastic approach to fighting. Skaven on the other hand were about slaves and everyone is a cog and backstabbing is easier than getting lunch (which is often a fellow skaven previously backstabbed). They were more like a faceless mass until they started making models for all the warmachines.

[franz]

yeah i tried alot with the orks but it is just a struggle/not fun compared to other races. Its a shame they have some really cool characters :D

I am winning but its just soooo slow