How to Deal with Empire Artillery and Handgunners

[Insane Ruffles]

I am doing a head to head campaign against my friend who is Empire, and I am playing as Dark Elves. For the life of me, I cannot defeat him in a 20 on 20 engagement. He has 4 artillery pieces, 2 Volley Guns, the Sun Maker, and a Hellstorm rocket battery. Unless the map is heavily forrested, I cannot beat him because no matter what I do, 1/3rd of my army is gone from artillery fire by the time I engage. That is with a full out sprint towards his lines from the beginning, mind you. They just get shredded by artillery fire, and the handgunners also deal a ♥♥♥♥ load of damage. I cannot engage malekith or any flying unit without them dying in a few hits, and large units again get shredded by handgunners. How do you fight against the empire when they have such powerful ranged?

I have tried flanking with doomfire warlocks. He has halberdiers guarding his units so that really doesn't work. The Sun Maker also 1 - 2 shots any artillery, so counter artillery isnt really an option. Any help is appreciated, thanks!

[Wh♂♂par]

Spread yourself wide. Use magic. Malekith should be able to dance around so ~50% will miss. Use a bit more cav. Ranged cav vs. the Halberdiers should work, if you micro them to dance a bit. You sort of have to time it, that everything hits lines at the same time. I can imagine it being a little tough, but magic should change it up.

[Insane Ruffles]

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

Spread yourself wide. Use magic. Malekith should be able to dance around so ~50% will miss. Use a bit more cav. Ranged cav vs. the Halbediers should work, if you micro them to dance a bit. You sort of have to time it, that everything hits lines at the same time. I can imagineit being a little tough, but magic should change it up.

Ive tried spreading myself, but he soley targets my most expensive units when I do that. I usually carry Black Guard of Naggarond, Sisters of Slaughter, Har Ganeth executioners, and Witch Elves with me but they all literally get obliterated before they can even engage.

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

Try spamming loads of cheap cav?

Also spells cast on artillery pieces are great uses of magic.

Also spells cast on stationary infantry are also great uses of magic.

[Wh♂♂par]

What are both armeis consisting off? Honestly, I'd try a few custom battles with you - I'm not the best versus person, but you could find a build or something (Which of course isn't as in campaign, since perk buffs, but it's getting closer)

[Obdurate]

Get charriots and use autoresolve. Charriots are 700 kills easy

[Zane87]

Originally posted by NMKInsane Ruffles:

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

Spread yourself wide. Use magic. Malekith should be able to dance around so ~50% will miss. Use a bit more cav. Ranged cav vs. the Halbediers should work, if you micro them to dance a bit. You sort of have to time it, that everything hits lines at the same time. I can imagineit being a little tough, but magic should change it up.

Ive tried spreading myself, but he soley targets my most expensive units when I do that. I usually carry Black Guard of Naggarond, Sisters of Slaughter, Har Ganeth executioners, and Witch Elves with me but they all literally get obliterated before they can even engage.

Shades?

Where are your shades?
Honestly 2 more dragons along Malekith and 4-6 shades together with black guards/executioners should easily kill him.

Use your dragons to draw fire, micro them so that the handgunners miss more than they hit, tricky with bullets but possible.

Your blade vortex spell in turn will shred the handgunners. Don't use the breath attack of the dragons that are being targeted, use the ones that can move freely for that, so spread those out.

The mainline advances and your shades try to get around the edges to get some clear shots. Protect them by not letting them too far off in case of cavalry but they can, if they have clear shots, kill any artillery with 2-3 volleys

[Fendelphi]

When his "strongest" outweigh your "strongest", you cannot keep relying on your "strong points", but need to diminish his "strong points" instead. Luckily, Dark Elves can do that.

Magic is great against stationary/slow moving units(like artillery pieces). Against Armor piercing units, units with high physical resistance can be very helpful.
Doomfire Warlocks have the lesser doombolt, and the curse, which should prove quite effective in reducing enemy damage output and dealing damage to stationary targets. They dont need to charge in early, as their 40% physical resistance will absorb a decent amount of handgunners fire, and even a bit from the volley guns(would require 3 hits instead of 2 to kill a rider).
Assisted by a wizard(either Malekith or a mage hero), you should be able to do big damage hits on all that fire support.

Use units that have concealment, like Shades, to open up a surprise attack on the flank.

It would not be cheap, but it will be effective.


Another thing to consider would be the Reaper Bolt thrower. The Sunmaker and Helstorm is very inaccurate at long range and the volley gun has short range. You could potentially outrange your friend by bringing 4 Reaper Bolt thrower units of your own and either focus on the helstorm/sunmaker first(to stop them from shooting entirely, switching to the volley gun if it moves up) or destroy his infantry/handgunner support(the helstorm runs out of ammo fairly fast, so if it only shoots at long range, it's damage is minimized due to the inaccuracy).

This wont have nearly as high upkeep, as Reaper Bolt throwers are cheap compared to Doomfire Warlocks and Shades.

[Congo_Jack]

Don't Shades have the stalk ability? Use plenty of shades spread out to reduce accidental hits and punish him with missile fire. Uprgraded Shades will wipe the floor with handgunners in missile to missile combat. The Shades can also fight in close combat reasonably well. Also lots of cav and magic.

[Kel]

Try Harpies.

Throw them at the ranged/artillery to shut them down while you close in. If you can, angle the approach from wide out side of the firing cones(hover over the units to see the cones) to make the ranged turn away from your main force as it approaches. If they want to fire at your main force they will have to make a painfully slow turn back assuming they are in line formation.

Vanguard Units are also useful here. Your opponent has traded manouverabilty for firepower so surround him. Good luck.

[Cryme Tyme]

where is your black ark? if near use your own arty and crush his easily, and like others said shades, chariots are fairly good vs empire.

[Zane87]

Originally posted by Kel:

Try Harpies.

Throw them at the ranged/artillery to shut them down while you close in. If you can, angle the approach from wide out side of the firing cones(hover over the units to see the cones) to make the ranged turn away from your main force as it approaches. If they want to fire at your main force they will have to make a painfully slow turn back assuming they are in line formation.

Vanguard Units are also useful here. Your opponent has traded manouverabilty for firepower so surround him. Good luck.

Harpies will die after a salvo of handgunners bullets.

They will not be able to shut down it's artillery...

I still am strongly in favour of shades. Their stalk makes the enemies range advantage obsolete and they are very effective at sniping.


The Doomfire Warlock however is indeed another good option

[Insane Ruffles]

Hmm I guess I can replace my dark shards with shades, as they get annihilated anyways before they can do much damage. The only problem I foresee is him immediately charging my shades once they open fire, so I will have a very limited window.

[Iriath Zhul]

Originally posted by NMKInsane Ruffles:

Hmm I guess I can replace my dark shards with shades, as they get annihilated anyways before they can do much damage. The only problem I foresee is him immediately charging my shades once they open fire, so I will have a very limited window.

What's he gonna charge them with? Sounds like his army is 75% halberds, gunners, and arty.

[Cryme Tyme]

Originally posted by NMKInsane Ruffles:

Hmm I guess I can replace my dark shards with shades, as they get annihilated anyways before they can do much damage. The only problem I foresee is him immediately charging my shades once they open fire, so I will have a very limited window.

shades can move and fire with 360 arc, they are on auto skirmish mode, so when enemy gets too close they withdraw a bit, they can held their own against most infantry anyway, only the elite of elite infantry or monsters can overpower them. try to get a lord with 'shadowdart' or 'grey vanquisher' name power to buff them.

doom warlocks can be good, but they are a bit expensive in upkeep.

my doom stack are: xbow lord on dragon with shadowdart name power, 10-12(4-6 the double weld kind for sustainability, 2-4 GW ones for anti large, 2-6 regulars) shades; couple xbow dark riders, couple doom warlocks, 3 witchelves, flying mage with dark or fire.

[Orderan]

Could you bring a screenshot of his armies ?

I'm kinda surprised considering that DE overall have more elitist troops than empire (save for arty of course).