Mammoth beats halberdiers

[Dorch]

what beats mammoth?

[Rekovni]

The problem is human players pulling through halberds to get to your ranged units. Then it's over and only demigryphs can save your ranged units.

[JODEGAFUN]

Originally posted by Stanley:

Originally posted by JODEGAFUN:

Heroes with gear + high lv skills beat monster, you have only look carefull which hero to hire (poison attack for empire captain is possible, and no comment about handmaiden with explosiv trait and the item you can build with vaul rite which gives you poison attack and replenish life,)

it doesnt matter. By the time your hero and your lord defeat 2-3 mammoths, the other 7 or 10 of them would have allready routed your army.

KF is unbreakable if you skill him right and who said that you have only one hero and lord, you can spam heroes as Empire in late game. And if you use a beakup army you have no problems with mammoth, only face 1 to 1 a mammoth doomstack is hard with empire.

[Imposter]

Well taking into account that if we are just strickly speaking 'Human Race' Halberdiers, then yeah, Mammoth beats 'Human' Halberdiers. But something like 'Temple Guards', from LizardMen, then yeah, they might beat a Mammoth without additional support, though they will take some casualties. Maybe even 'Depth Guard' Halberds will do fine too.

I mean all of this for simplicity sake.

[BaronWilhelm]

Anti large mosters or cav, or mounted anti large hero/lord. These unit types have the mass to not get tossed around by animations from stuff like dinos, mammoths, warsphinx, etc. hence they can continue to perform atk animations and consistently dish out dmg instead of constantly being stunned.

Even higher tier anti large infantry can have a hard time when someone's micro with the mammoth is good, as they can just cycle charge and pull out while your little dudes stay busy trying to stand back up over and over, not forming to block a charge or perform atk animations, and the mammoth will drop their leadership quickly while tanking dmg coming towards it.

But, if you have healing spells/buffs for your anti large infantry they have a good chance of holding out long enough while supporting fire takes em down. You just have to focus fire with anti large ranged units or whatever ranged you've got on you, and hope the mammoth doesn't fall back to safety.

Of course the downside to bringing mounted units, monsters, or ranged to deal with them, is that you know if they're norsca they're bringing skin wolves/fimirs and skirmish cav, and your micro game gets a lot of pressure on it. If you're like me and your micro starts to suck 3/4 of the way through the fight, you might want to invest in abilities that debuff stats or drain single model hp very well, like soul stealer or another equivalent.

Ultimately it's just knowing good builds for the race you pick, trying to anticipate the mammoth in your build w/out spending too much cash, and hoping you were right lol

[Imposter]

Hell just set up a Halberd line, 4 Handgunners, HeLBlasterVolley, with something like a Steam Tank at the helm; an 'unbreakable' unit attack the Mammoth center field with enough range for your Handgunners to hit but also standing behind Halberds, once the tank explodes, that Mammoth still has to charge Halberds, all while being shot to pieces, through the whole gauntlet.

[JODEGAFUN]

Originally posted by Blasted:

Well taking into account that if we are just strickly speaking 'Human Race' Halberdiers, then yeah, Mammoth beats 'Human' Halberdiers. But something like 'Temple Guards', from LizardMen, then yeah, they might beat a Mammoth without additional support, though they will take some casualties. Maybe even 'Depth Guard' Halberds will do fine too.

I mean all of this for simplicity sake.

Phoenixguard with Allarielle 6 MD bonus+ 5MD bonus from resilent trait on Handmaiden (which i always seek to put one in an army)+ redline bonus kill those elephants. Ore better monster with monster counter. Allarielle+ bonus above+ dragontamer + Stardragons (who can have near 100 MD with this composition) crush fc mammoth because the do not hit the dragons with the low attack they have. I have allready kick out mammoth stack lead by Wulfric on his own mammoth without problems with dragons (and i had only 8 of them while he had 11 mammoth with his mount). But sister with phoenixguard melt them too.

[Imposter]

Originally posted by JODEGAFUN:

Originally posted by Blasted:

Well taking into account that if we are just strickly speaking 'Human Race' Halberdiers, then yeah, Mammoth beats 'Human' Halberdiers. But something like 'Temple Guards', from LizardMen, then yeah, they might beat a Mammoth without additional support, though they will take some casualties. Maybe even 'Depth Guard' Halberds will do fine too.

I mean all of this for simplicity sake.

Phoenixguard with Allarielle 6 MD bonus+ 5MD bonus from resilent trait on Handmaiden (which i always seek to put one in an army)+ redline bonus kill those elephants. Ore better monster with monster counter. Allarielle+ bonus above+ dragontamer + Stardragons (who can have near 100 MD with this composition) crush fc mammoth because the do not hit the dragons with the low attack they have. I have allready kick out mammoth stack lead by Wulfric on his own mammoth without problems with dragons (and i had only 8 of them while he had 11 mammoth with his mount). But sister with phoenixguard melt them too.

Elves just kinda go without mentioning....CA kinda really made Elves as a whole, like brick walls.

Perhaps maybe Elven races in Warhammer is what "Rome" is in Rome:Total War.

[JODEGAFUN]

Originally posted by Blasted:

Originally posted by JODEGAFUN:

Phoenixguard with Allarielle 6 MD bonus+ 5MD bonus from resilent trait on Handmaiden (which i always seek to put one in an army)+ redline bonus kill those elephants. Ore better monster with monster counter. Allarielle+ bonus above+ dragontamer + Stardragons (who can have near 100 MD with this composition) crush fc mammoth because the do not hit the dragons with the low attack they have. I have allready kick out mammoth stack lead by Wulfric on his own mammoth without problems with dragons (and i had only 8 of them while he had 11 mammoth with his mount). But sister with phoenixguard melt them too.

Elves just kinda go without mentioning....CA kinda really made Elves as a whole, like brick walls.

Perhaps maybe Elven races in Warhammer is what "Rome" is in Rome:Total War.

Rome is not overpower in Rome 2, but in Rome 1 yes they were. In Rome 2 Seleukid is very op too (good army and fleet), and any barbarian race (exept on sea) as you can train your armies and generals with sacking runs aigan and aigan which Rome can not do.

[Stanley]

Originally posted by Blasted:

Hell just set up a Halberd line, 4 Handgunners, HeLBlasterVolley, with something like a Steam Tank at the helm; an 'unbreakable' unit attack the Mammoth center field with enough range for your Handgunners to hit but also standing behind Halberds, once the tank explodes, that Mammoth still has to charge Halberds, all while being shot to pieces, through the whole gauntlet.

the problem is not how to defeat a mammoth, the problem arises when AI doomstack has 10+ mammoths. Your strategy is worthless in that situation

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by JODEGAFUN:

Originally posted by Blasted:

Well taking into account that if we are just strickly speaking 'Human Race' Halberdiers, then yeah, Mammoth beats 'Human' Halberdiers. But something like 'Temple Guards', from LizardMen, then yeah, they might beat a Mammoth without additional support, though they will take some casualties. Maybe even 'Depth Guard' Halberds will do fine too.

I mean all of this for simplicity sake.

Phoenixguard with Allarielle 6 MD bonus+ 5MD bonus from resilent trait on Handmaiden (which i always seek to put one in an army)+ redline bonus kill those elephants. Ore better monster with monster counter. Allarielle+ bonus above+ dragontamer + Stardragons (who can have near 100 MD with this composition) crush fc mammoth because the do not hit the dragons with the low attack they have. I have allready kick out mammoth stack lead by Wulfric on his own mammoth without problems with dragons (and i had only 8 of them while he had 11 mammoth with his mount). But sister with phoenixguard melt them too.

Sisters alone melt them. Sisters alone with 3 handmaidens and 2 dragons won every battle I played with under 100 losses. And most of the battles I lost any troops to where to hellcannons. Phoenix guard are a waste of time with that stack when sisters get almost as high md, and the ai is too stupid to run past handmaidens or dragons.

Besides, the 3 elf factions are probably the easiest to doomstack. They beat every stack 1v1 without the need to play them better than ai when you doomstack.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Stanley:

Originally posted by Blasted:

Hell just set up a Halberd line, 4 Handgunners, HeLBlasterVolley, with something like a Steam Tank at the helm; an 'unbreakable' unit attack the Mammoth center field with enough range for your Handgunners to hit but also standing behind Halberds, once the tank explodes, that Mammoth still has to charge Halberds, all while being shot to pieces, through the whole gauntlet.

the problem is not how to defeat a mammoth, the problem arises when AI doomstack has 10+ mammoths. Your strategy is worthless in that situation

The concept actually can work though. Get 4 steam tanks and a couple warrior priests. Then instead of using the halberds, they're just on reserve for if one of the mammoths is smart enough to run past. With heal spam, priest buffs, red skill buffs, and especially if you get like a helm of discord, mammoths will all die before the steam tanks do. Beats every stack 1v1, just he had few enough steam tanks you could screw it up.

[Imposter]

Originally posted by Stanley:

Originally posted by Blasted:

Hell just set up a Halberd line, 4 Handgunners, HeLBlasterVolley, with something like a Steam Tank at the helm; an 'unbreakable' unit attack the Mammoth center field with enough range for your Handgunners to hit but also standing behind Halberds, once the tank explodes, that Mammoth still has to charge Halberds, all while being shot to pieces, through the whole gauntlet.

the problem is not how to defeat a mammoth, the problem arises when AI doomstack has 10+ mammoths. Your strategy is worthless in that situation

Ok, so let's say younran into 1 mammoth, before you met a field of mammoths, and know of their strengths, would it be wise to only send up 1 LL after a Norscan LL, like Throgg and Wulfrik? HEEECK no.

Though your scenario is completely understood. I took my Army of Greenskins, (a NightGoblin Shaman Lord.) Up north to put down Norsca, what I came across was nearly a full stack of mammoths. Well shoot, I thought, "How am I gunna foit dis band o gits?" It took me nearly one full Waagh and most of my Main army and EVERYTHING I could possibly do before driving them off, this was PRE-Coast_Beta too, most of my main army except for my ranged were down to a 10th of health, each. What helped me barely win, was a KerFluffel of Arrer Boyz AN ASS ton of Arrerz. Not to mention I had I think 3-4 Rock Lobbers pounding those Mammoths too, and it worked surprisingly well. (Very Hard Difficulty modifier).

After that battle I can say without a doubt that it's more trouble than it's worth, albeit 'do-able', other races it's super easy to pull off, GreensSkins lack almost any BvL.

But think about this for a moment: After taking into consideration that yeah, this is fantasy, but also keep in mind you are bringing, HUMANS to fight MONSTROSITIES, why would anyone NOT outnumber that? I know for a fact humans are inherently weak, so bringing 1 army of humans is very risky.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Blasted:

Originally posted by Stanley:

the problem is not how to defeat a mammoth, the problem arises when AI doomstack has 10+ mammoths. Your strategy is worthless in that situation

Ok, so let's say younran into 1 mammoth, before you met a field of mammoths, and know of their strengths, would it be wise to only send up 1 LL after a Norscan LL, like Throgg and Wulfrik? HEEECK no.

Though your scenario is completely understood. I took my Army of Greenskins, (a NightGoblin Shaman Lord.) Up north to put down Norsca, what I came across was nearly a full stack of mammoths. Well shoot, I thought, "How am I gunna foit dis band o gits?" It took me nearly one full Waagh and most of my Main army and EVERYTHING I could possibly do before driving them off, this was PRE-Coast_Beta too, most of my main army except for my ranged were down to a 10th of health, each. What helped me barely win, was a KerFluffel of Arrer Boyz AN ASS ton of Arrerz. Not to mention I had I think 3-4 Rock Lobbers pounding those Mammoths too, and it worked surprisingly well. (Very Hard Difficulty modifier).

After that battle I can say without a doubt that it's more trouble than it's worth, albeit 'do-able', other races it's super easy to pull off, GreensSkins lack almost any BvL.

But think about this for a moment: After taking into consideration that yeah, this is fantasy, but also keep in mind you are bringing, HUMANS to fight MONSTROSITIES, why would anyone NOT outnumber that? I know for a fact humans are inherently weak, so bringing 1 army of humans is very risky.

Humans aren't weak. Humans have tanks. Real humans would ofc massacre mammoths (a single attack helicopter would win let alone actually outnumbering them), but talking about the game demigryphs are for some reason stronger per troop than blood knights and steam tanks are one of the strongest single entities in the game.

Empire (and Brettonia for that matter) actually has quite good counters. Its just demigryph halberds aren't too cost effective vs anything else but mammoths and chaos stacks. Ai doesn't pressure flanks well enough to need them vs cav. Which would make halberd gun stacks more versatile, but you're probably fighting chaos after norsca

[Imposter]

I mean physically vs. monstrosities over other races, not in the their advanced technology/magic, or with their beast riding cavalry. Taking Halberdiers alone, and expecting them to hold for awhile would be their downfall. Bringing in as set of Halberds with "humans" in a fantasy setting against monsters always means you are gonna need a bigger boat, or combined arms.

Just the basics of what humans can handle. Knowing that you have to send out men with 'hand to hand' weapons against mammoths alone in Warhammer, would be suicide.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Blasted:

I mean physically vs. monstrosities over other races, not in the their advanced technology/magic, or with their beast riding cavalry. Taking Halberdiers alone, and expecting them to hold for awhile would be their downfall. Bringing in as set of Halberds with "humans" in a fantasy setting against monsters always means you are gonna need a bigger boat, or combined arms.

Just the basics of what humans can handle. Knowing that you have to send out men with 'hand to hand' weapons against mammoths alone in Warhammer, would be suicide.

Actually that poses a question though. Halberdiers have like 120 troops or something. Can 120 humans really not take down a mammoth? I have a feeling that 120 stone age hunters could take down a mammoth.