Animated Hulks

[Ferreus the Umbral Arrow]

Mournghuls are better in every way. That said, with the changes to animated hulks - they are closer to mournghuls now and 250g cheaper in multiplayer. So if you are looking for cheap infantry mulchers. They are actually worth their price now. With an added benefit.
Mournghuls don't get as good a surround on single target monsters. Tested them against feral bastilidons. 2 units of Animated hulks and 2 units of mournghuls. The animated hulks easily surrounded the bastilidon, limiting its movement. They didn't lose 1 model. The mournghuls clustered around the front of the bastilidon, and lost 6 models to it before downing the dino.
So I'd say in some very niche instances, they could work better for you than mournghuls. They do have more AP than mournghuls. Only mournghuls do get a bonus towards infantry. I don't see them being used often, but at least they might get used SOME now lol.

[Wyvern]

Animated hulks were already more used than mournghuls, so I wouldn't say that's really anything new. Mournghuls are generally just kinda shoddy, and I think CA went a bit overboard with the hulk buffs. It's a dirt cheap blocker monster, and was already popular for the purpose, hopefully the buffs weren't excessive though.

[Goblin]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Animated hulks were already more used than mournghuls, so I wouldn't say that's really anything new. Mournghuls are generally just kinda shoddy, and I think CA went a bit overboard with the hulk buffs. It's a dirt cheap blocker monster, and was already popular for the purpose, hopefully the buffs weren't excessive though.

Who used them? I sure as hell didn't.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Golin:

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Animated hulks were already more used than mournghuls, so I wouldn't say that's really anything new. Mournghuls are generally just kinda shoddy, and I think CA went a bit overboard with the hulk buffs. It's a dirt cheap blocker monster, and was already popular for the purpose, hopefully the buffs weren't excessive though.

Who used them? I sure as hell didn't.

Plenty of people did, including good players like RomulanDawg. A dirt cheap blocker unit is valuable for a dakka faction like voast. The unit was basically the only voast monstrous infantry I saw used in a significant number of battles. Nobody used the crabs(except the stupidly OP summon) and I think I've seen mournghuls used like twice?

[Goblin]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Originally posted by Golin:

Who used them? I sure as hell didn't.

Plenty of people did, including good players like RomulanDawg. A dirt cheap blocker unit is valuable for a dakka faction like voast. The unit was basically the only voast monstrous infantry I saw used in a significant number of battles. Nobody used the crabs(except the stupidly OP summon) and I think I've seen mournghuls used like twice?

Are you sure you aren't getting their units confused? The hulks have terrible stats 20 melee defence and 20 armor. They die extremely fast. They are easily one of the VP worst units.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Golin:

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Plenty of people did, including good players like RomulanDawg. A dirt cheap blocker unit is valuable for a dakka faction like voast. The unit was basically the only voast monstrous infantry I saw used in a significant number of battles. Nobody used the crabs(except the stupidly OP summon) and I think I've seen mournghuls used like twice?

Are you sure you aren't getting their units confused? The hulks have terrible stats 20 melee defence and 20 armor. They die extremely fast. They are easily one of the VP worst units.

Nope, they cost 750 and have solid mass. You arent paying for combat stats so much as for a dirt cheap roadblock to protect your guns. Sure they die pretty easy, but if your enemy has to go around them, or waste time focusing them instead of barging through to your guns, thats a win already.

[Goblin]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Originally posted by Golin:

Are you sure you aren't getting their units confused? The hulks have terrible stats 20 melee defence and 20 armor. They die extremely fast. They are easily one of the VP worst units.

Nope, they cost 750 and have solid mass. You arent paying for combat stats so much as for a dirt cheap roadblock to protect your guns. Sure they die pretty easy, but if your enemy has to go around them, or waste time focusing them instead of barging through to your guns, thats a win already.

That is what the zombies are for and they are even cheaper.

[Wyvern]

Zombies dont have enough mass. Its the same reason players use trolls sometimes, why skaven rely on rat ogres and why crypt horrors used to be popular vs factions vc couldnt control. Do you have to use them, no, but theyre viable and useful in that function. Mournghuls and prometheans in comparison are too expensive to be meatshields and their role of killers is better filled by more flexible shooting

[Goblin]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Zombies dont have enough mass. Its the same reason players use trolls sometimes, why skaven rely on rat ogres and why crypt horrors used to be popular vs factions vc couldnt control. Do you have to use them, no, but theyre viable and useful in that function. Mournghuls and prometheans in comparison are too expensive to be meatshields and their role of killers is better filled by more flexible shooting

Trolls have better combat stats. Trolls regenerate. Trolls have more speed. Greenskins have terrible leadership and route easily. Making them more susceptible to Large monsters who have fear and maybe even terror. Skaven only have two monsters, artillery, and doomwheels to choose from. They have no cav so the speed from the rat ogres is quite useful. The rest of their roster is just infantry that has terrible leadership and is more susceptible to Large monsters who have fear and maybe even terror.

The zombies do not route. They are immune to fear. They will hold the line till they die. The only thing that will push through the zombies are large single entity monsters. Their guns, artillery and deck droppers are great at killing them. If their monsters push through you should have enough ranged units to crossfire and deal with them.

[Falaris]

Perhaps different streaming groups has different meta going on, but +1 on I've never seen animated hulks used, and they feature prominently in various '5 worst VC units' lists.They really needed a bit of buffage. Still, keep it civil, guys.

[Wyvern]

https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/2277680#Comment_2277680
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/2292877#Comment_2292877
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/2288847#Comment_2288847

The issue has been discussed in great detail, and there are plenty of people who think the current state of animated hulks as a cheap AP CQC unit+road block is perfectly fine, including really competitive players like yst and soothsayer(admittedly, this makes me somewhat wrong, since they aren't being used solely as a roadblock, but also for their damage, which obviously something like polearms cant always deliver).

As I said already, I've seen others use it in MP, including RomulanDawg, who's also a competent player.

You can't just discount a units usability/usefulness because you don't use it that way or happen not to see it often.

I stand by my original statement that hulks are in a solid state. It's a 750 gold unit, making it the cheapest monstrous infantry in the game, expecting it to have great stats for such an investment is simply unrealistic.

[Wyvern]

I'm hardly targeting you, I simply comment on posts that are pertinent to MP, since it's the aspect of this game I actually care about and have a lot of experience with. You can post whatever you want, but why you think people aren't going to point out gaps in your reasoning or difference of experience/commentary from others is beyond me. It's not like you react in an civil matter to others who disagree either, as became readily apparent in the wild rider thread you started, a topic I didn't even comment on.

[Wh♂♂par]

This is turning awkward really quickly.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

This is turning awkward really quickly.

An understatement if I ever saw one haha.

Originally posted by Alith Anar (The Shadow King):

I'm not civil with people who refuse to listen to reason. Like I said, add something to a conversation and I will be civil. Be nothing but a persistant idiot, and I will not be civil.

Let's look at your sentence though - "I simply comment on posts that are pertinent to MP, since it's the aspect of this game I actually care about"
Of THIS game, I ACTUALLY care about
That sums up your attitude to a T

I care about every aspect of this game. This game is the best game I have ever played. Then lets talk experience.

As a child I played with army men. Set up huge battles in my floor. Choke points, ambushes, you name it.
Then I received Sun Tzu's Art of War. Studied it, lived it.
I have then played every strategy game I could get my hands on. From Chess to Fire Emblem, from Civ to X-com.
I live and breath strategy. There is nothing I do not know or understand about it. Call me out all you like on things I say, but I know what it is I am talking about.
When I discover something, I post it. To share with those who don't live and breath this stuff. Then you, or some other person that thinks they know better because "This person said so", showing how much of a sheep you can be - and I come at you. Because even the slightest bit of stupid can cancel out something intelligent. That's - unfortunately - how our world works. So I will combat the stupidity with everything I have.

So, to wrap up our little conversations in these two posts. Come at me all you want. Try an argue me. Typically I would eventually ignore such attempts after awhile, but for you (feel special) I will do my utmost best to shut down anything that you say which is either incorrect, or not applicable.

I am going to paraphras Aith Anar here and say, Your ass approaches a dark throne, for I am the king - pray you bring only light, or be shut down like the neophyte you are.

Wow, thats a lot of words used to say nothing relevant to the discussion, much less anything to back your position on the topic, which is the viability/use of animated hulks in MP.

[RadCon One]

Originally posted by Alith Anar (The Shadow King):

Originally posted by Wyvern:

I'm hardly targeting you, I simply comment on posts that are pertinent to MP, since it's the aspect of this game I actually care about and have a lot of experience with. You can post whatever you want, but why you think people aren't going to point out gaps in your reasoning or difference of experience/commentary from others is beyond me. It's not like you react in an civil matter to others who disagree either, as became readily apparent in the wild rider thread you started, a topic I didn't even comment on.

I'm not civil with people who refuse to listen to reason. Like I said, add something to a conversation and I will be civil. Be nothing but a persistant idiot, and I will not be civil.

Let's look at your sentence though - "I simply comment on posts that are pertinent to MP, since it's the aspect of this game I actually care about"
Of THIS game, I ACTUALLY care about
That sums up your attitude to a T

I care about every aspect of this game. This game is the best game I have ever played. Then lets talk experience.

As a child I played with army men. Set up huge battles in my floor. Choke points, ambushes, you name it.
Then I received Sun Tzu's Art of War. Studied it, lived it.
I have then played every strategy game I could get my hands on. From Chess to Fire Emblem, from Civ to X-com.
I live and breath strategy. There is nothing I do not know or understand about it. Call me out all you like on things I say, but I know what it is I am talking about.
When I discover something, I post it. To share with those who don't live and breath this stuff. Then you, or some other person that thinks they know better because "This person said so", showing how much of a sheep you can be - and I come at you. Because even the slightest bit of stupid can cancel out something intelligent. That's - unfortunately - how our world works. So I will combat the stupidity with everything I have.

So, to wrap up our little conversations in these two posts. Come at me all you want. Try an argue me. Typically I would eventually ignore such attempts after awhile, but for you (feel special) I will do my utmost best to shut down anything that you say which is either incorrect, or not applicable.

I am going to paraphras Aith Anar here and say, Your ass approaches a dark throne, for I am the king - pray you bring only light, or be shut down like the neophyte you are.

The problem is you throw a tantrum if any one debates your point, you are never civil unless they agree. The moment someone gives evidence that contradicts your view you go ballistic and claim they are unreasonable (though it would be quite the opposite, as providing evidence is one of the most reasonable things). I, and others, have been in multiple debates with you were you just flat out rage and attack us after our first comment, when we never even attacked you, only pointed out the flaws in what you are saying. No one is out to get you, but if you make a claim you have to be prepared to defend it and have people disagree.

[an entire Roman legion]

Originally posted by Entropy:

Originally posted by Alith Anar (The Shadow King):

I'm not civil with people who refuse to listen to reason. Like I said, add something to a conversation and I will be civil. Be nothing but a persistant idiot, and I will not be civil.

Let's look at your sentence though - "I simply comment on posts that are pertinent to MP, since it's the aspect of this game I actually care about"
Of THIS game, I ACTUALLY care about
That sums up your attitude to a T

I care about every aspect of this game. This game is the best game I have ever played. Then lets talk experience.

As a child I played with army men. Set up huge battles in my floor. Choke points, ambushes, you name it.
Then I received Sun Tzu's Art of War. Studied it, lived it.
I have then played every strategy game I could get my hands on. From Chess to Fire Emblem, from Civ to X-com.
I live and breath strategy. There is nothing I do not know or understand about it. Call me out all you like on things I say, but I know what it is I am talking about.
When I discover something, I post it. To share with those who don't live and breath this stuff. Then you, or some other person that thinks they know better because "This person said so", showing how much of a sheep you can be - and I come at you. Because even the slightest bit of stupid can cancel out something intelligent. That's - unfortunately - how our world works. So I will combat the stupidity with everything I have.

So, to wrap up our little conversations in these two posts. Come at me all you want. Try an argue me. Typically I would eventually ignore such attempts after awhile, but for you (feel special) I will do my utmost best to shut down anything that you say which is either incorrect, or not applicable.

I am going to paraphras Aith Anar here and say, Your ass approaches a dark throne, for I am the king - pray you bring only light, or be shut down like the neophyte you are.

The problem is you throw a tantrum if any one debates your point, you are never civil unless they agree. The moment someone gives evidence that contradicts your view you go ballistic and claim they are unreasonable (though it would be quite the opposite, as providing evidence is one of the most reasonable things). I, and others, have been in multiple debates with you were you just flat out rage and attack us after our first comment, when we never even attacked you, only pointed out the flaws in what you are saying. No one is out to get you, but if you make a claim you have to be prepared to defend it and have people disagree.

that was beautiful