The Ubersreik Five (or four, doesn´t matter)

[rosariodoamaral]

Was playing Skaven for a bit and was pleasantly surprised to see one of the rats to mention that "Saltspyre and Fire-Witch won´t stop the Vermintide" or something like that.

I am, however, UNpleasantly UNsurprised to see that, other than that, they aren´t present in the game at all.

So, I got some thinking... How could the Total War engine could best represent them?

IMHO, I think the game could add them as an "special character/resource" (think The Green Knight), that becomes available once 1- Chaos Invasion starts, and 2- Dwarfs, Empire and One of the Elves enter into an alliance, with Elves determining which version of the Ubersreik Five (or four, doens´t matter) will spawn (High Elves, and U5 is its "heroic" version, WooD Elves, Default verison, and Dark Elves, the "insane version)

As for the Five (or four) themselves, maybe they should work as a slightly different version of a Hero Unit (kinda like a Legendary Hero, if you will), a 5 figure unit that cause apocalyptic damage to Skaven, Norsca and Chaos Warriors via Hero actions, or that, in the battlefield, should one of the five figures of the unit fall, could use a special ability to revive them.

What are your thoughts?

Do you think this idea has any merit?

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

I don't think so, if only because the line between charming easter egg and shameless gobbing off is only as long as the novelty lasts. Game devs giving cheeky little winks to other series as homage or parody is a wonderful thing to notice, but when those asides become actual content or levels it starts becoming worthy of scrutiny rather than pure enjoyment. Having the demise of MGS be referenced in Splinter Cell was a sweet little nod to the games' rivalry, if Fisher had a whole level devoted to creeping around in a box and repeating the previous line of dialogue as a question over and over~... Maybe its just me but I suspect the joke would get old quickly.

That said, I suppose its once of those things where if a modder did it I'd be over the moon. I adore all my goofy voicepacks in XCOM, but if characters like Waluigi were in the base game I'd have very different feelings. From a gameplay perspective I like the idea of multiple-character single-entity lords, like Skarsnik and Gobbla or Thorgrim and his Shieldbearers. Assuming it could be made to work smoothly I could definitely see the Vermintide gang being a fun unique hero unit for the Empire, or functioning in a similar way to the Aspiring Champions.

[rosariodoamaral]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

I don't think so, if only because the line between charming easter egg and shameless gobbing off is only as long as the novelty lasts. Game devs giving cheeky little winks to other series as homage or parody is a wonderful thing to notice, but when those asides become actual content or levels it starts becoming worthy of scrutiny rather than pure enjoyment. Having the demise of MGS be referenced in Splinter Cell was a sweet little nod to the games' rivalry, if Fisher had a whole level devoted to creeping around in a box and repeating the previous line of dialogue as a question over and over~... Maybe its just me but I suspect the joke would get old quickly.

I acknowledge and understand your point, but it is possible (although unlikely) that both dev teams reach an agreement over the use of characters, IF they so desire.

For instance, Total War gets the U5, and the next DLC for Vermintide is about a new Norscan leader that has risen and conquered the RotBlood Tribe after Blodvarr´s death. Someone so blasphemous, that others whisper about him being the "True Everchosen"... Surtha Ek.

etc,etc.

[TVMAN]

No offense to the The Ubersreik Five (or four, doesn´t matter), but they're relatively small potatoes as far as Warhammer characters go. They're playing in the minor leagues compared to what's going on in the world at large. At best they'd just be heroes with unique portraits.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

It is possible, certainly not implausible - game crossovers are nothing new. I suppose I just think a fun little quirk has more charm to it than making it a point of focus. I've got >800 hours on this game and I never knew that the Vermintide characters get referenced by the Skaven on the world map - its a wonderful and charming little detail that makes me fall more in love with this game. A Surtha Ek namedrop in Vermintide would be fantastic too (especially since Surtha sort of has meme status anyway) but I also wouldn't want a campaign where he's a voiced character and you fight him as a boss etcetera.

... Buuuuut if a modder made that Chaos Champion fight in Vermintide 2 into a Surtha Ek fight? I would subscribe to that so hard.

[rosariodoamaral]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

It is possible, certainly not implausible - game crossovers are nothing new. I suppose I just think a fun little quirk has more charm to it than making it a point of focus. I've got >800 hours on this game and I never knew that the Vermintide characters get referenced by the Skaven on the world map - its a wonderful and charming little detail that makes me fall more in love with this game. A Surtha Ek namedrop in Vermintide would be fantastic too (especially since Surtha sort of has meme status anyway) but I also wouldn't want a campaign where he's a voiced character and you fight him as a boss etcetera.

... Buuuuut if a modder made that Chaos Champion fight in Vermintide 2 into a Surtha Ek fight? I would subscribe to that so hard.

Wait. I don´t understand.

Why you WOULDN`T like an appearance of Surtha Ek made by the game devs, but would like the exact same, if made by a modder?

That doesn´t make sense O.o.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

Because I draw a distinction between recieving a paid product and enjoying something made for free use by a loving fan. If Fatshark did a Surtha Ek bossfight it would suddenly be worthy of scrutiny: Does the fight do the character justice - does it live up to expectations set by players from Total War? Is the boss fight well designed? Does the character being Surtha Ek detract, add, or change nothing about the overall experience? These questions matter immensely if you're buying the game, but don't matter at all if its just a steam workshop mod.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by rosariodoamaral:

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

It is possible, certainly not implausible - game crossovers are nothing new. I suppose I just think a fun little quirk has more charm to it than making it a point of focus. I've got >800 hours on this game and I never knew that the Vermintide characters get referenced by the Skaven on the world map - its a wonderful and charming little detail that makes me fall more in love with this game. A Surtha Ek namedrop in Vermintide would be fantastic too (especially since Surtha sort of has meme status anyway) but I also wouldn't want a campaign where he's a voiced character and you fight him as a boss etcetera.

... Buuuuut if a modder made that Chaos Champion fight in Vermintide 2 into a Surtha Ek fight? I would subscribe to that so hard.

Wait. I don´t understand.

Why you WOULDN`T like an appearance of Surtha Ek made by the game devs, but would like the exact same, if made by a modder?

That doesn´t make sense O.o.

It makes perfect sense. Content and optional content are two different things. To have it, enjoy the novelty and turn it off when its lost that novelty is one thing. To have it part of the base game? Very different.

Would I absolutely love a Total War game based in a different universe like say TES? Yes I would. But at the same time, I worry about whether the game would do justice for that universe and make an enjoyable experience. In the end, I'd prefer to simply enjoy the TES experiences I get and not risk losing interest in it through overuse or poorly built ideas. Hence why mods and such exist. You can get a taste for the idea without overdoing it. I'm not sure I'm good at explaining it, but there is a huge distinction.

[rosariodoamaral]

While I acknowledge that one should judge official content in a harsher manner than fan content, I believe that you are both overthinking a bit.

The Ubersreik Five (or four, doesn´t matter) as well as pretty much any non-LL (Alastor the White Lion, for instance) from WH2, are basically blank sheets made specifically for the games, without prior mention or existance in the Warhammer Lore.

So, I think your fears of the dev team screwing up the characters is unfounded. In fact, I kinda got the feeling thay you *assume* that the dev team would screw up.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

I think that's a fair interpretation. I am pretty cynical when it comes to media, crossovers (different characters between games, or films-->games etc) do not exactly have a stellar history. It works well in some cases but they very much feel like the minority, and the games industry in particular is one that very much punishes people who don't scrutinize developers. Its idealism versus pragmatism once again.

Let's say hypothetically that CA totally pulled it off, let's put my pessimism to one side for a moment. They implement the characters with all the love and attention to detail they've done for the rest of the game etc etc. Yes, I think I'd probably enjoy it. :D

[Angarvin]

i don't think unique characters from vermintide are doable for twwh, especially considering moments like markus being just a sargeant but he will have to be introduced as a captain or bardin being ranger but he will have to be introduced as an engineer.
also it has to be said that kerillian VA (Alix Wilton Regan) is already dubbing DE lords so something will also have to be done about that which sounds like too much hassle for CA.

mb some minor choice events for vermintide respective character factions that give some back story (we still don't really know why kerillian left the forest or what happened in ostland to push markus into drinking etc.) could be ok.

Originally posted by rosariodoamaral:

While I acknowledge that one should judge official content in a harsher manner than fan content, I believe that you are both overthinking a bit.

The Ubersreik Five (or four, doesn´t matter) as well as pretty much any non-LL (Alastor the White Lion, for instance) from WH2, are basically blank sheets made specifically for the games, without prior mention or existance in the Warhammer Lore.

So, I think your fears of the dev team screwing up the characters is unfounded. In fact, I kinda got the feeling thay you *assume* that the dev team would screw up.

not necessarily screw up but will not fulfill expectations since everyone has their own and two games player bases even though most certainly have some overlap still most definitely differ a lot

[Paragon]

Modding this in wouldn't be too difficult actually. Perhaps after a certain # of settlements the Skaven get an event asking if they want the bloody ubersreik 5 (or 4, dosen't matter) to appear. If so heros at a certain levels with immortal are spawned for the hoomans. I'm not sure if humans can have heros for other species, and there isn't a dwarf ranger hero. If you're willing to work unique equipment and skill trees are also possible.

Honestly its a bit overkill just to have the "Sigmar bless this ravaged body", or in one class "ravage this blessed body" guy and friends in game.

[rosariodoamaral]

Originally posted by Angarvin:

i don't think unique characters from vermintide are doable for twwh, especially considering moments like markus being just a sargeant but he will have to be introduced as a captain or bardin being ranger but he will have to be introduced as an engineer.
also it has to be said that kerillian VA (Alix Wilton Regan) is already dubbing DE lords so something will also have to be done about that which sounds like too much hassle for CA.

Well, if CA would introduce the characters to WH2, then I would expect them to make a decent work and make them an "unique" unit, instead of just lapping a name into an existing Hero name roster and calling it a day.

Some unique mechanics (a hero unit with 5 figures? a new Passive ability that causes negative pop growth in Skaven/Norsca/Chaos provinces?) and some unique events would have to be made, at the very minimum.

Originally posted by Angarvin:

not necessarily screw up but will not fulfill expectations since everyone has their own and two games player bases even though most certainly have some overlap still most definitely differ a lot

Well, is it impossible to please EVERYONE.

But it *is* possible to make a good work that makes the game better overall, even if that particular addition isn´t exactly your cup of tea.

[Angarvin]

Originally posted by rosariodoamaral:

Well, if CA would introduce the characters to WH2, then I would expect them to make a decent work and make them an "unique" unit, instead of just lapping a name into an existing Hero name roster and calling it a day.

Some unique mechanics (a hero unit with 5 figures? a new Passive ability that causes negative pop growth in Skaven/Norsca/Chaos provinces?) and some unique events would have to be made, at the very minimum.

yeah, THAT is never happening. sorry, dude

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

No harm in letting the guy dream, its a nice fantasy.

[Angarvin]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

No harm in letting the guy dream, its a nice fantasy.

i can understand wet warhammer dreams, man. a souls like game with co-op in warhammer universe (40k or fantasy) would be sick. or a city building game. or a mode for twwh what would allow two players play the same faction (as in exacty the same, sort of like starcraft). still just dreams though. not gonna happen :sadpanda: