Bone Giant vs Ushtabi w/ Great Bows

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

Okay, everybody's busy playing Vampirates, but while I'm waiting for SFO to update the only faction I can play is Tomb Kings.

Anyway:

Ushtabi with Great Bows have no specific bonuses but they are reasonably bad vs infantry but truly devastating vs monsters; their job is to snipe monsters out of existence.

Bone Giant has a ridiculous anti-large of 150 IIRC, but it also has an explosion which actually makes it quite good with infantry.

Of course, playing as TK due to the unit cap, you'll be getting both as they're better than filling your army with skeletrash (well in campaign anyway)

[Zane87]

Is there a specific question that I missed?

But yeah, you summed it up pretty well :P

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

Originally posted by Zane87:

Is there a specific question that I missed?

Just wondering if anyone had anything else to add on their relative strengths.... "which one is better" is an interesting point but kinda silly as you'll always be getting both in campaign :P

[Panfilo]

I'm pretty sure Ushtabi will come out with more bonuses improving them in the end. They also take less time to recruit.

[Wyvern]

kinda depends on MP vs SP, as well as a few other factors.

Bowshabti are better in most cases if all their shots are on target. BUT, theyre a lot squishier, with potential DPS bleed, they have less effect vs blobs due to lack of penetration and their lower alpha per shot can become a problem when facing units whose models dont die in one shot, which is a surprisingly big list of cavalry and even some heavy infantry. Its also easier to dodge a giants shots just because of the fact that its one projectile with very obvious animation/visibility

[Ashantai]

There's a place for both. You can dispense with regular artillery entirely and get a bone giant, but bowshabti (great name Wyvern) are great supports. They take down walls and towers super fast, they massacre elite infantry and cavalry and monsters.

[Angarvin]

i'd pick giants simply because they'll get obstructed less. they are a point and forget unit - they will see their target anywhere and will reach it anywhere. ushabti you will need to manage some

[Dragoon]

If you want to snipe a piece of artillery off the map bone giants are you boys they also mess up infantry and have longer range and can hurt cavalry badly too. Ushtabi with Great Bows will like you said mess up monsters and also heavy armor infantry.So it depends what you want. Though I would take bone giants over Ushtabi.

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

kinda depends on MP vs SP, as well as a few other factors.

Bowshabti are better in most cases if all their shots are on target. BUT, theyre a lot squishier, with potential DPS bleed, they have less effect vs blobs due to lack of penetration and their lower alpha per shot can become a problem when facing units whose models dont die in one shot, which is a surprisingly big list of cavalry and even some heavy infantry. Its also easier to dodge a giants shots just because of the fact that its one projectile with very obvious animation/visibility

what's "DPS bleed" and "alpha per shot?"

[Angarvin]

Originally posted by aidenpons:

Originally posted by Wyvern:

kinda depends on MP vs SP, as well as a few other factors.

Bowshabti are better in most cases if all their shots are on target. BUT, theyre a lot squishier, with potential DPS bleed, they have less effect vs blobs due to lack of penetration and their lower alpha per shot can become a problem when facing units whose models dont die in one shot, which is a surprisingly big list of cavalry and even some heavy infantry. Its also easier to dodge a giants shots just because of the fact that its one projectile with very obvious animation/visibility

what's "DPS bleed" and "alpha per shot?"

when a unit loses models, especially a ranged one, it loses in dps since less models are firing.
alpha is damage per attack unlike dps which is damage dealt over 10 seconds in twwh.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Ashantai:

There's a place for both. You can dispense with regular artillery entirely and get a bone giant, but bowshabti (great name Wyvern) are great supports. They take down walls and towers super fast, they massacre elite infantry and cavalry and monsters.

Thanks, but cant take credit for the bowshabti name haha, its been around for a while, good point about siege work though!

Originally posted by aidenpons:

Originally posted by Wyvern:

kinda depends on MP vs SP, as well as a few other factors.

Bowshabti are better in most cases if all their shots are on target. BUT, theyre a lot squishier, with potential DPS bleed, they have less effect vs blobs due to lack of penetration and their lower alpha per shot can become a problem when facing units whose models dont die in one shot, which is a surprisingly big list of cavalry and even some heavy infantry. Its also easier to dodge a giants shots just because of the fact that its one projectile with very obvious animation/visibility

what's "DPS bleed" and "alpha per shot?"

DPS bleed is losing damage output with the loss of models. A single model like a bonegiant hits as hard at 1 hp as it does at full, whereas bowshabti on half their models are only hitting half as hard.

alpha per shot is damage per attack rather than damage over ten seconds, the reason I say per shot is because im trying to differentiate between the alpha of the whole unit versus the damage of one model.

[Justin_760]

Meh, Ushtabi bows were never worth it for me. They underperformed consistently when compared to almost any other artillery, and with my army comp theres only room for one. Bone Giant is great because of the janky AI, they still seem to identify them as regular artillery, meaning theyll spawn a group of clan rats or send a light cav unit to attack it and get smashed. And if frontlines falter they can jump in and fight melee.

Unrelated, but is it just me or does casket of souls completely suck? Its accuracy is awful, I rarely got more than 20 kills per battle with it.

[KellyR]

o.o

My caskets reap a couple hundred kills each, in basically every battle. They're amazing.

[Angarvin]

Originally posted by Justin_760:

Meh, Ushtabi bows were never worth it for me. They underperformed consistently when compared to almost any other artillery, and with my army comp theres only room for one. Bone Giant is great because of the janky AI, they still seem to identify them as regular artillery, meaning theyll spawn a group of clan rats or send a light cav unit to attack it and get smashed. And if frontlines falter they can jump in and fight melee.

Unrelated, but is it just me or does casket of souls completely suck? Its accuracy is awful, I rarely got more than 20 kills per battle with it.

watching skaven drop their summons on arty stegadons is also rather hilarious

casket works well on ultra unit setting. anything lower than that - it sucks donkey balls.
if you are however playing on ultra - please remember that arty units become much better with chevrons (their accuracy goes up) and also distance to their target plays a big role (closer = more accurate). caskets fire in a big arc like a mortar so get them as close as you can

[RED /(Weber)\]

I find both to be useful. Ushabti in general are just a powerhouse of a unit, no matter the weaponry.

[DD The Pumpkin King]

Haven't test the Bone Giant yet but he looks really good. Bowshab have always been useful to me. I like having 2-3 since they take down gates,towers and large units so quickly. Pretty average against infantry and calvary but that isn't what I got them for anyway.