Siege Towers

[Panfilo]

Let's discuss siege towers! Here's what I know about them :

-A siege tower is sturdy enough to withstand fire from two basic defensive towers. So most of the time if you have a direct unobstructed path the defensive fire won't destroy the tower

-This changes with upgraded defensive towers, which do progressively more damage, to the point that T3 defensive towers can definitely destroy siege towers by themselves. When focus firing a tower they can knock it out very quickly.

-Units in a destroyed tower take about 50% of their health when their tower is destroyed. So knocking out enemy siege towers gives a HUGE benefit to Defenders.

-You can slow down siege towers by putting units in their way. However, the towers have a lot of mass so lightweight units like clanrats will just get pushed aside. Heavy cavalry or monstrous units work better, assuming there aren't units on the ground trying to distract them. This can be a good way to knock out siege towers, especially in walled minor settlements that are normally very unlikely to destroy towers.

-Magic that targets units directly will affect the units inside. So Melkoths Mystifying Miasma will do a DoT to the unit inside and slow the tower itself. I'm not sure if other magic like fireball affect siege towers, nor am I certain if AoE debuffs work on them.

-I think, but not certain, that artillery damages siege towers. My wild assumption is that they are affected, but can absorb the same amount of punishment as defensive towers. Since they are moving and quickly creep out of your firing angle, you seldom get enough hits to really notice a difference.

-Units in the tower ignore collision until the tower deploys. If you zoom in enough, you can see them all crammed in a space the size of a single model. When the tower deploys they immediately get affected by friendly collision which is what causes them to always push Defenders back. During this time, they are EXTREMELY vulnerable to any AoE attack or ability that can be targeted on walls. Demo charge Miners, for example, can do massive damage if they throw their charges at a tower that just started unloading.

-Both friendly and enemy units can climb up siege towers! Defending units outside the walls can climb up the enemy's towers to give them a nasty surprise from behind. Deployed towers can also still be potentially destroyed by anything that normally damages them. This is rare though because it's really hard to get a firing angle to hit them directly.

-High Elf Vaul's hammer will instantly smash a tower if you target it.

Current mysteries: How much does magic and artillery affect towers? Do forests slow down towers?

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

-Units in a destroyed tower take about 50% of their health when their tower is destroyed. So knocking out enemy siege towers gives a HUGE benefit to Defenders.

On Normal unit size it's more like 75%.

-I think, but not certain, that artillery damages siege towers. My wild assumption is that they are affected, but can absorb the same amount of punishment as defensive towers. Since they are moving and quickly creep out of your firing angle, you seldom get enough hits to really notice a difference.

Artillery does but it unfortunately cannot be targeted by clicking on siege towers. You can go into manual fire mode and smack a tower down that is already on your wall (good as dwarves in walled settlement with a Grudge Thrower); though it is slow.



- Deploying your own units in front of a siege tower will result in very stupid stuff happening and the siege tower will probably never reach the wall as it is trying to push your units out of formation.

[Panfilo]

I've found it depends a lot on the unit you put in front of the tower. I've used Dwellers Below in front of the advancing siege towers but the tower just shoves the rats out of the way. But cramming a lot of bigger units definitely bogs them down (they get bogged down by friendly units too)

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

Originally posted by Panfilo:

I've found it depends a lot on the unit you put in front of the tower. I've used Dwellers Below in front of the advancing siege towers but the tower just shoves the rats out of the way. But cramming a lot of bigger units definitely bogs them down (they get bogged down by friendly units too)

This is when you deploy friendly units in front of friendly towers.

[Panfilo]

Do bolt spells like fireball damage towers?

[Inardesco]

Uhm....


Y do you even bother with them?

All you need is: artillery, archers, some magic and you can wipe out enough defenders to break them before you enter the settlement proper.

[cb4n28]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Uhm....


Y do you even bother with them?

All you need is: artillery, archers, some magic and you can wipe out enough defenders to break them before you enter the settlement proper.

Some factions don't have much in the way of artillery and/or archers

[an entire Roman legion]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Uhm....


Y do you even bother with them?

All you need is: artillery, archers, some magic and you can wipe out enough defenders to break them before you enter the settlement proper.

I like siege towers

[Inardesco]

Its pointless to use them imo unless you enjoy recruiting new units after every siege battle.

Its easy enough to take out multiple stacks without setting foot into the settlement. Granted its a chore but atleast you can move straight away next turn (I blame LegendofTotalWar for that).

[Panfilo]

Do you even play this game? Your scenario is incredibly impractical. Magic is too limited to wipe out a garrison alone, and not every army can archer/artillery spam (and for those that do, they are very vulnerable to ambush). Capturing the settlement gives replenishment anyway, you're going to have more downtime doing it your way vs just using siege towers.

Building siege towers is a standard strategy. Many units are well suited for fighting on walls because the enemy is limited in how many units can engage you. Infantry on walls are protected from large units and attackers can put their missile units on the walls to shoot inwards. Siege towers don't expend vigor vs ladders which exhaust infantry using them. They are hard for Defenders to stop. Skaven can even get a follower that gives extra siege towers.

[Inardesco]

Guess I am playing this game better than you then. I've often taken settlements in the following manner;

Deploy lords and heroes in front to soak up tower damage

3 artillery knock out towers
Then proceed to kill enemy units on the walls

6-7units of archers to wipe enemy troops on walls or high value targets standing behind them

Magic if available to do the same as the archers

Once archers run out and my power reserve is drained and the ai still hasnt broken, I send in my lords to break down the gate while 6 infantry storm the walls to kill the remaining few.

Does the job perfectly to the point I often don't need to send in the melee.

Only TK gives me more casualties due to some magic and their ushabti but often...less than 50.

[Panfilo]

Siege Towers are more flexible and don't require so much missile units and artillery. Your strategy is far from universal.

[Inardesco]

Y is it more flexible on a single stretch of wall?

If it was a full settlement that you could attack from multiple angles....even then I'd prefer ladders over towers cuz its faster. The quicker you reach it the less time you get shot at.

But you do you. I know which approach I'd rather prefer.

[Panfilo]

Ladders drain all your vigor, which will make the units fight poorly. It's more of a last resort if you're in too much of a hurry to wait for siege towers. Shooting with ranged units also becomes unappealing when they have lots of archers on walls. The walls provide cover from missile fire and only a percentage of missiles actually hit,while your own missile troops are getting hit with missiles and tower shots.

Artillery is great in sieges, but you expend a lot of ammo knocking out defense towers.

When you are trying to take a capital with T3 walls, siege towers are the way to go. You engage the enemy in multiple fronts at full health and conserve your ammo for the easiest targets.

[TVMAN]

Why waste turns building siege towers when I can knock the walls down with arty and bash the gates open with monsters? I frankly don't bother with siege engines at all unless it's in the early game and I have no other options. I get my siege business done in a single turn and move on to the next target afterwards.

Shooting with ranged units also becomes unappealing when they have lots of archers on walls

If those archers are standing on a wall section that gets destroyed by arty, then RIP archers. My go-to method is to pick a spot on the walls to attack, then take out towers defending that section of wall, then knock holes in that section of wall, then advance with my ranged to mop up the stragglers still stuck on the walls while pushing my infantry through the breaches.

The obvious exception to this is if I'm playing the Vampire Counts, since they have neither arty or ranged. In their case, I'll build siege towers so I can get grave guards up on the walls while crypt horrors bash down the gates.

[cb4n28]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Guess I am playing this game better than you then. I've often taken settlements in the following manner;

Deploy lords and heroes in front to soak up tower damage

3 artillery knock out towers
Then proceed to kill enemy units on the walls

6-7units of archers to wipe enemy troops on walls or high value targets standing behind them

Magic if available to do the same as the archers

Once archers run out and my power reserve is drained and the ai still hasnt broken, I send in my lords to break down the gate while 6 infantry storm the walls to kill the remaining few.

Does the job perfectly to the point I often don't need to send in the melee.

Only TK gives me more casualties due to some magic and their ushabti but often...less than 50.

What factions do you do this with?