Vampire Coast zombies (lore)

[ubermensch]

Can someone explain to me why the Vampire Coast Zombies come off as more "intelligent" then their Vampire Count Cousins? Is there any lore reason why they seem to retain their ability to talk, laugh, acknowledge commands verbally, use guns and so on? What makes the Vampire form of Necromancy different to produce this kind of result? Is it the quality of the corpse? Is it that they allow a bit more personality to show given their pirate nature? Or is it just CA doubling down the Pirate theme and reflecting it amongst the Pirate crew? Just curious.

[RedPhoenix]

Rum crosses all language barriers

[ubermensch]

Originally posted by RedPhoenix:

Rum crosses all language barriers

Even death I suppose

[Aeon]

Vampire Count zombies, are well 'Zombie' zombies as you expect them to be, however Vampirates are more like 'Vampire Zombies', think more like "Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales" zombies. So rather than Counts who raise zombies from decaying corpses, the Vampirates are raising fresh dead sailors who's bodies have barely started to decay, if that makes sense?

[Dr. Uncredible]

From what I´ve understood it, as explained by people cleverer than myself:

The Vcoast, due to having different needs from their undead servants (such as being able to handle ship-crew duties and gunpowder) and not having access to the vast cemetaries of the well populated empire use a different reanimation-spell than their land-bound siblings;
where ordinary vampires basically point at a land area with a lot of dead and reanimate the lot of them as mindless, feral automatons the Coastbound vampires use something more similar to the spell used to reanimate graveguard, a stronger incantation that leaves much of the victims former intellect intact while still enthralling them.

[ubermensch]

Originally posted by AeonChan:

Vampire Count zombies, are well 'Zombie' zombies as you expect them to be, however Vampirates are more like 'Vampire Zombies', think more like "Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales" zombies. So rather than Counts who raise zombies from decaying corpses, the Vampirates are raising fresh dead sailors who's bodies have barely started to decay, if that makes sense?

So If they raise the dead in a certain time threshold the guy that died retains his personality from being alive somewhat? Do they lose that ability over time? Do they keep that forever? What makes being dead for one minute different to 4 days in a necromancer magic sense? I guess you can argue the "soul" of the person loses itself in that longer span of time but I have never heard that being a thing until now.

[ubermensch]

Originally posted by Dr. Uncredible:

From what I´ve understood it, as explained by people cleverer than myself:

The Vcoast, due to having different needs from their undead servants (such as being able to handle ship-crew duties and gunpowder) and not having access to the vast cemetaries of the well populated empire use a different reanimation-spell than their land-bound siblings;
where ordinary vampires basically point at a land area with a lot of dead and reanimate the lot of them as mindless, feral automatons the Coastbound vampires use something more similar to the spell used to reanimate graveguard, a stronger incantation that leaves much of the victims former intellect intact while still enthralling them.

Well that makes a bit more sense. Stronger stuff= stronger results. Although why don't the vampire counts just do that as well? I bet a undead with a crossbow or cannons would pretty helpful if the Von Carsteins want to take over the empire. Or do they just not have access to this spell of the Vampire Coast?

[Xhal]

Originally posted by ubermensch:

Originally posted by Dr. Uncredible:

From what I´ve understood it, as explained by people cleverer than myself:

The Vcoast, due to having different needs from their undead servants (such as being able to handle ship-crew duties and gunpowder) and not having access to the vast cemetaries of the well populated empire use a different reanimation-spell than their land-bound siblings;
where ordinary vampires basically point at a land area with a lot of dead and reanimate the lot of them as mindless, feral automatons the Coastbound vampires use something more similar to the spell used to reanimate graveguard, a stronger incantation that leaves much of the victims former intellect intact while still enthralling them.

Well that makes a bit more sense. Stronger stuff= stronger results. Although why don't the vampire counts just do that as well? I bet a undead with a crossbow or cannons would pretty helpful if the Von Carsteins want to take over the empire. Or do they just not have access to this spell of the Vampire Coast?

I think lore wise is that the vampire counts don't really care and don't want any possible imdependance from their raised dead. Also it seems harder to do what the vampire zombies do on a large scale, when the vampire counts raise skeletons and zombies to take over the world they do so in the hundreds of thousands.

Army scale does have a place in game but does not correctly reflect the lore. A skaven army of 3000 fighting a dwarf army of 1000 in game. Where in lore it would be closer to 30000 vs 1000.

[Dr. Uncredible]

Originally posted by ubermensch:

Originally posted by Dr. Uncredible:

From what I´ve understood it, as explained by people cleverer than myself:

The Vcoast, due to having different needs from their undead servants (such as being able to handle ship-crew duties and gunpowder) and not having access to the vast cemetaries of the well populated empire use a different reanimation-spell than their land-bound siblings;
where ordinary vampires basically point at a land area with a lot of dead and reanimate the lot of them as mindless, feral automatons the Coastbound vampires use something more similar to the spell used to reanimate graveguard, a stronger incantation that leaves much of the victims former intellect intact while still enthralling them.

Well that makes a bit more sense. Stronger stuff= stronger results. Although why don't the vampire counts just do that as well? I bet a undead with a crossbow or cannons would pretty helpful if the Von Carsteins want to take over the empire. Or do they just not have access to this spell of the Vampire Coast?

Well there´s no official answer to this, GW always kind of made stuff up as they went along.

My guess is that Old World vampires are an old fashioned, arrogant bunch, if you look at all their units they´re from an earlier era than imperial units despite being from the same region.
Old world vampires believe in themselves and their magic, and consider common soldiers something to be thrown at the enemy and discarded.
While the Coastal Vampires on the other hand -need- relatively intelligent underlings to operate their ships, mind cannons and such.
I guess the Sylvanians and their lot -could- mimic the spells Harkons brood use, but they´re old-fashioned, arrogant and disinclined to change.
"It worked for me just fine a millenia ago, it´s fine now."

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by ubermensch:

Originally posted by Dr. Uncredible:

From what I´ve understood it, as explained by people cleverer than myself:

The Vcoast, due to having different needs from their undead servants (such as being able to handle ship-crew duties and gunpowder) and not having access to the vast cemetaries of the well populated empire use a different reanimation-spell than their land-bound siblings;
where ordinary vampires basically point at a land area with a lot of dead and reanimate the lot of them as mindless, feral automatons the Coastbound vampires use something more similar to the spell used to reanimate graveguard, a stronger incantation that leaves much of the victims former intellect intact while still enthralling them.

Well that makes a bit more sense. Stronger stuff= stronger results. Although why don't the vampire counts just do that as well? I bet a undead with a crossbow or cannons would pretty helpful if the Von Carsteins want to take over the empire. Or do they just not have access to this spell of the Vampire Coast?

I'm not too knowledgeable about the lore, but I think its because Luthor uses some slann artifacts in his raise undead spell. So I don't believe Vampire Counts can use the same spell, at least not as effeciently as Harkon can.

Some reddit thread I found said hes just using slann magic to get them to point the gun in the right direction. And most other necromancers probably don't bother because its pretty ineffective (apparently on tabletop they have an equal chance to shoot themselves as the enemy).

[Jerroser]

Even with the regular Vampire units there is some level of hierarchy where the units with more magical power put in to them will have a larger level of autonamy and ability to think for themselves. With their Zombies being at the bottom, just being animated courpses and the Wight Kings on the other end which although unable to disobey their masters are largely selfaware and can think and act independantly.

So you could imagen that the Vampire Coast factions are able to implant a bit more intenligence in to their zombies if they want to. Although the issue is that this would mean they would require more magical power to keep them moving which doesn't match with their cheap cost and upkeep. (but I guess that gameplay and intended power level more important in this case)

[Fosil]

wizard did it.

"BLACK POWDER WEAPONS
The pirates of the Vampire Coast carry a large assortment of black powder weapons, ranging from pistols to Great Cannon – not a normal sight in the retinues of more traditionally minded
(and less clinically insane) Vampire Counts. Though Zombies are not normally known for their ability to shoot straight (or at all), Harkon long ago wove an enchantment that allows them to do just that. However, even the misused magics of the Slann have a hard time making soggy and
waterlogged black powder weapons discharge with any reliability. All black powder weapons that require a roll to hit will always hit on a roll of 6 if the firer has Ballistic Skill 0, regardless of
any modifiers. However, any rolls of 1 will result in the gun misfiring – resolve the hit against the firing unit instead of the targe"

http://sgabetto.free.fr/Telechargements/War.CZombiePirates.pdf

[dEamon_sAdi]

I think somewhere i've seen that it's because of the magic of the galleons graveyard, where all who died on the sea are going to

[Malaficus Shaikan]

Total made up:

Necromican page 3:
Raising a zombie.
The basic spell of anyone seeking to claim to be a necromancer (point and laught at any "necromancer" who cant raise a zombie, They are entirely worthly of scron as they besmirsh our good reputation)
You can teach this to your acolye's(or just give them this book)

The art of raising a zombie is a simple mather of calling upon your necromatic energie's and focusing it inside of the zombie.
You need a bare minimune amount to get them to move.
The more necromantic energie you put in them the more use you can get out of them.
Zombies serve in most necromancer armies as shock troops.
There not ment to do much more then to tire the enemy out and waste there ammunition.
Ofcourse in dire times you might want to make your zombies a bit more useful.
Pooring enough of your magical reserve's into a zombie can make it a fast moving tool of death and destruction.
I would advise against it as it would be against traditation(and also a collosal waste of energie. You can raise a dragon lich for the amount of energie you waste!!!!)

Necromican page 10:
Controling corpses.
Corpses are the easiest of the dead to control.
They are empty shells you fill with your necromantic energie and control them like a puppet.
Your will driving them forward.
Zombie's, skeletians, vampire's, dragon lich's.
It doesnt mather what the corpses is the only thing that mather is will.
In order to get a dragon lich to burn a villiage just focus your will on having you dragon lich burn the villiage(make sure you pick burn as the dragon lich is dead. It will trow itself against stone walls indefinitly if you arent careful(As my former student found the hard way when he tryed to get a dragon lich to attack me. A demostration of willing his dragon lich to eat him reminded the rest of the studends what happens if you disrespect magic or me))
A fellow necromancer can fight for control of your undead by spending there necromantic energie's to overwritte yours.
General speaking it is cheaper to kill and reanimate an undead then steal it away from its animator.
As they first need the spend the same amount the animator put in it to remove it animators control and then insert there own.

Necromican page 3871:
Fun with zombie pirate's.
Apperanitly necromancy is a lonely proffesion(no really we raise the dead and most of us got the entirely justified reputation of being mad with power... What did you think necromancy was about?)
Some studens of mine desided to make there live's more interesting by wasting there magical reserve's of making there zombies act like pirate's......
I wish i was kidding.
Seriously if you are that lonely i am sure there is a sally or jassica or whatever in some disgusting club that would keep you entertaint for pocked change.
A few thousent gold is worth less then your magical reserve's.
Get it into your heads!!!
Magical energie is more important then wordly gains.
Honestly if i had to spend my magical energie every time a buch of idiotic adventure's broke into my home and raided my magic tombs i woud never had to time to read this book to teach my acolyde's(and assuming there acolyde's lazy bumbs that they are) how to properly raise undead.
I am getting really tired of putting dragon lich's down because some idiot forget to tell it to stop breathing fire in the fire place.
I am starting to miss my place at the accadamy.
Ow sure i had to deal with guild politic's but atleast the students there had other proffesors to harres.
Meaby i shoud find myself a nice graveyard or two to raise and send at a local village.
That useally calms me down.