Optimal archer range from walls?

[Iriath Zhul]

What's the optimal distance archers/slingers should have from a wall? Cause you might've noticed at the right distance they will start firing in a long arc that completely misses the parapets and hits like 3X as much. But I haven't been able to nail this down and I wonder if there's a trick to it.

[HeLLfire]

引用自 Iriath Zhul：

引用自 HeLLfire：

Well when your archers are Savage arrer boyz then yes, you can just use as well to scale the wall. Similar options exist for other units that's also good at melee. If not, then no don't send them to a melee.

Also, just look at the the damage\kill count your archers do when you siege down a settlement with walls. They don't do much damage, if all they do is fire from outside the walls, and into the wall defenders. There are exceptions, as wood elves seem to have some great accuracy and their archers don't do too bad. Still 100% better from inside the walls, or on the walls firering down.

Right, because I'm always using Savage Arrows. What about TK skeletons? Gutter Runners? Elves? Come on, man. You're living in a fantasy world where the enemy nonsensically gives me the walls just because I put my archers there. I tell you, if I'm defending, and I've got my Executioners on the walls and the enemy sends his archers to come fight me in melee, I'm laughing.

Did you read what i just wrote? I just said if they are crap in melee don't send them there. But many races have pretty decent archers that can also do melee.

TK skellies are ofc craptastic in melee.
Gutter/night runners are okay'ish in melee for a short duration, but their skirmishing ability is so strong, and their range kinda meh, i'd consider finding an open space you can sneak them over the walls and skirmish from inside - tough the micro would be annoying.
Elves? The regular archers would die - but Shadow Walkers and Lothern Seaguard would do fine.

The main question to ask is this: How can i get the most damage from my units? If at the end of a siege as an attacker you see your archers get very little kills, even when they shoot until they're out of ammo, you can see that fireing from the outside of a wall onto the wall defenders isn't a good trade.

Lastly you don't need to send the archers up to the walls at once.
Hold back for a bit to let your main melee infantry get on the walls, see how the AI moves and once they're mostly engaged - sneak them up on open spaces and fire from the walls, either down, or to the sides of the wall.
If the situation allows, you could also run them down the wall and shoot back up from the inside and into the enemy infantry's back to great effect. Tough this part is very situational, as the AI often got troops in reserve they send out once you got boots on the ground inside the wall.

[Iriath Zhul]

Yeah so basically the "rush the walls" thing is a huge non sequitur. My original question was "what's the optimal range for archers", the assumption being that I don't want my archers in melee because if I wanted to attack the enemy in melee I'd have brought actual melee infantry.

[HeLLfire]

引用自 Iriath Zhul：

Yeah so basically the "rush the walls" thing is a huge non sequitur. My original question was "what's the optimal range for archers", the assumption being that I don't want my archers in melee because if I wanted to attack the enemy in melee I'd have brought actual melee infantry.

Fine...then i'd angle them 45'ish degrees toward the wall so they shoot it semi-sideways. Atleast that seems to get the arrows around the forward defenses to a greater degree then fireing straight at em.

Going closer to the wall also seem to help to get a higher arch and therefore bypassing the front
wall section more.

Still i'm really not fond of archers in a siege as the attacker - they might LOOK they're doing good, but the kill cound they get at the end often proves otherwise. Also, remember that if you do not get a high enough arch with them, go to slow mo and watch the trails - you're most likely hitting alot of your own troops in the back.

[Chaoslink]

引用自 Iriath Zhul：

引用自 Chaoslink：

Yes, and I answered from the standpoint of attacking. When assaulting enemy walls, the BEST place for your archers is on those walls. Punch a beachhead for them with heavy infantry and open up a spot in their main lines, or simply have them climb the walls on the far flanks. Either way, the best place for them is on the walls, not trying to shoot over them.

Its why I said towers don't matter, there is never a reason to be in front of them long enough to worry about them.

So my archers can get tied up in melee? That's ridiculous. I get what you're saying in theory but that never works--it only takes one enemy infantry to stop my archers from firing.

Works for me 99% of the time. Sure, they might get engaged in melee, but as long as they’re not the first ones on the wall or left without melee support they can get out rather easily too. As I said, either send the up via the far flanks or establish a beachhead first. You’re not just sending them on the walls as the first ones up there. Archers firing over the walls might net you 20 kills. Archers firing on the walls but angled down the length will probably net you something like 35. But archers on the walls firing downward will net you something like 100 at the cost of maybe ten losses from occasional melee. A vast majority of the melee contact does not stop them from firing. And as long as you are supporting them with other melee, the losses are very much worth the extra damage. The enemy often bunches units up on top of the gates too, and archers on the wall can clear those units incredibly effectively, then you can position your archers on that gate and initiate a melee to control the gatehouse while offering excellent archer support. Once the gate is yours, cavalry and large infantry support can charge through and mop up routing units and charge the capture point to finish off the battle.

You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette. If you’re keeping your archers back to keep them safe, you’re sacrificing their potential in battle. I’ve never lost an entire archer unit doing this, and rarely do they take significant casualties enough to say it wasn’t worth it. The damage they dish out generally causes enough routing that my total losses would likely be greater had I not sent them up. Take risks. If you be smart about them, they’re often worth it.