Are mounts worth it ?

[Mexican ground karate]

Hello guys I dont understand the mounts on hero when i hover over the mount "upgrade" it reduces the stats of my LL by a large margin is it normal ? I ve read conflicting theory that it show you the base stats of the mount and thats why it shows a downgrade when you compare stats, also it seems to remove my talisman bonus

[DirectOrder]

I'd like to know this as well, it's a bit confusing.

[Spell]

That is correct, it shows the base stats. Once you have it equipped you will see the unit card with all the bonuses again.

[James Howlette]

It does indeed just show you the base stats of the mount, so any skills or items the Lord has equiped won't be factored in. Mounting a lord will usually edit their stats though, just not as objectively terribly as the preview makes it look (for example throwing them on a big mount like a dragon usually lowers their MA by like 5-10 but gives them more weapon damage).

Most of the time a mount is an improvement, but depending on what Lord your using, what your using them for and what mount your looking at it may not be the most optimal play just due to how it effects their speed, mass, and model size.

[Hieronymous]

My understanding is lords are better in combat unmounted, and if you want to fight other lords, that's best done on Foot. For charge bonus and a more small-aoe kind of move set, suitable for attacking regular infantry, get a mount.

I usually only get mounts that are clearly better like dragons. Sometimes I'll get a horse if I have a faction without much calvary.

[Locklave]

Most mounts result in net loss in combat ability, for combat lords most aren't worth it. Caster benefit from being more mobile, flying or just faster movement.

Large mounts generally are worth it for combat lords, they get crazy AoE and buffs. Those mount types are harder to gauge via stats. The Lizardmen large mounts for example is insanely powerful.

Chariots mounts being an example of terrible for combat lords, generally.

[James Howlette]

Originally posted by Hieronymous:

My understanding is lords are better in combat unmounted, and if you want to fight other lords, that's best done on Foot. For charge bonus and a more small-aoe kind of move set, suitable for attacking regular infantry.

I usually only get mounts that are clearly better like dragons. Sometimes I'll get a horse if I have a faction without much calvary.

Horses can be good for slower duelist lords to help them run targets down (like if your fighting an army with a mounted lord or a lot of fast single entity monsters) or on casters to help them get out of trouble or into position for a good cast. But yeah, they do generally make lords worse in combat due to the larger hitbox and the way horses get stuck on stuff.

[fgalkin]

I'm going to go against the common opinion here and say that mounts are generally good, except for specialized duelist lords. The reasons are as follows

1) Mass. Legendary lords on foot have low mass, which means that they a) get knocked down easily, spending time on the ground instead of fighting (this could actually be a good thing, since lords on the ground take no damage, buying them time to survive in a fight they'd otherwise lose, for example, for help to arrive) and b) they get stuck in crowds easily, meaning they could be tarpitted by chaff like zombies or skavenslaves and spend most of the battle cutting their way out, or, alternatively, they could die because they couldn't run away from that unit of stormvermin hacking them apart.

2) Mobility. Legendary lords have a specific niche they excel in. This is more obvious for casters, but even combat lords should be focusing on advantageous match-ups. You don't want your anti-large lord getting stuck fighting infantry, when he could fly across the battlefield to help your spears to fight off that Stegadon. Alternatively, he could dash across the field to target the enemy's soft high value targets like casters or artillery, then get back to his lines before the enemy units arrive.

3) Terror. A lot of the monstrous mounts cause fear or terror, which is valuable even if the combat stats of the mount are lower, because it can terror-rout enemy units, opening a gap in their front line.

4) Charge bonus. Even if the sustained combat stats are lower, horses and monstrous mounts often have charge bonuses in the 80-90 range, which is far superior to the lord's combat stats on foot.

[Tricks]

I agree with all the points fgalkin made. Personally I think the mobility, mass, and charge bonus a mount gives a lord is almost always worth it unless you have a very good duelist lord. After all, the faster a lord can move, the faster they can attack or escape.

That being said the best mounts are always monstrous mounts, which is why it's kinda bs how some lords get monster mounts while others get either just a horse or no mount at all.

[SamtheCossack]

I generally keep lords on foot until they open up the last mount available (Usually a big monstrous one). A single entity monster with a lord on the back in insanely strong, and you should pretty much always go for them.

Horses/Cold Ones are usually pretty lackluster I find. Certain lords do well on them, but a lot of those lords are better off on foot if they are combat focused.

[Ashley]

Certain mounts yes. Those ones who have aoe attacks are great. SIngle target? Nah

[RED /(Weber)\]

Yes. Mainly for LL's, but many lords do benefit from a mount as well, notably warplock masters.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by SamtheCossack:

I generally keep lords on foot until they open up the last mount available (Usually a big monstrous one). A single entity monster with a lord on the back in insanely strong, and you should pretty much always go for them.

Horses/Cold Ones are usually pretty lackluster I find. Certain lords do well on them, but a lot of those lords are better off on foot if they are combat focused.

I'm going that way too.

I don't really like the regular horse level mounts. They mainly offer speed, but make your lords easier targets for ranged and spears.

[Tsuyara]

Being on foot is only good for tanking and grinding enemy infantry. Forget fighting enemy lords/heroes, they will just bowl you over and have you running around trying to chase them.
Horse/pegasus are vulnerable, but required if you want your lord to actually kill any enemy hero/lord. (be aware of taking a flying caster, they might get swarmed by enemy fliers without any way for your troops to help)
Monstrous are generally best, capable of being where you need them, being able to disengage from blobs, doing good damage and having high HP.

Chariot types are a lot more micro intensive, but not necessarily bad. They drastically alter the playstyle and impact though.

[Fendelphi]

A negative for non-flying mounts is your effectiveness in sieges. You are stuck on the ground and have a hard time assisting the fighting on the walls.
Fortunately, you can simply dismount prior to the siegebattle and engage on foot, if you feel it is needed. So in the end it is more a convenience thing.

For certain lords and heroes, chariots can be very impactful(ha!). They have good charge bonus and high AP damage for a chariot, meaning every infantry hit is killed. A single charge can easily take 15-20 down. However, they do become specialized in this role(infantry unit killer, not duelists).

[Falaris]

Another point - in campaign, being on foot is not that bad, because the AI doesn't exploit the mass imbalance that much. Players do. So in PvP, being on foot can be very bad.

All in all, mounts or not is a lot more nuanced than it seems at first.

A mounted lord can keep up with and (often) buff other cavalry, which might otherwise have leadership challenges.

Mounts (almost) always specialize you for some role. The larger mounts tend to specialize you for mass combat, and to be fair, that's a common occurrence in WH2. But like other large monsters, suddenly there's a lot of things out there specialized in killing you. (Cannons, halberdiers, etc).

Most anti-infantry specialized things are designed against infantry - high count models, not super-tough single entity models. Thus, lords can be a lot safer - in certain respects - unmounted. But of course, lack of speed and mass is another vulnerability.

In the end, though, few things beat having a dragon-mounted lord for coolness. :D