Is Lilaeth The Lady of the Lake?

[SpiffyGonzales]

So, personally i've always held the assumption that the Mallabaud wass simply convinced by presumably a choas god into thinking that the Lady was lilaeth. I mean the Grail Knights, Damsels, the Green Knight, the King of Bretonnia, and the Fay SEE her. These are educated people. They KNOW who lilaeth is. All this taking aside the fact that "Ze lady" is supposed to be a god of courage, nobility, and PURITY while Lilaeth actively has a man. BUUUUT im not exactly a warhammer lore expert.

So while I've always beleived that mallabaud was simply tricked I have also heard it argued back and fourth that the Lady is or isnt Lilaeth based on certain wood elves saying that she is firmiliar to them or certain references in the lore.

So, for all you loremasters out there which is it? Am i rejecting end times in saying that the Lady is not Lilaeth, are they seperate, or is it just somewhere clear as day that she actually is. Please provide either a source or a quote or at least something you remember.

[GammaZeta430]

*heavy breathing detected

[SpiffyGonzales]

Originally posted by GammaZeta430:

*heavy breathing detected

Am confused.

[Darth Wadewilson]

In the end times it's revealed that lileath set up this giant LARP/cosplay called brettonia. What mallobaude saw was true. Apparently there is some veil (metaphor or real? not sure) which prevented others from realising the truth and led them to believe that it's the lady and nobody questioned. Only mallobaude saw through it. Leoncour also might've suspected this but he chose to not break the bubble.

Anyways all of that is done to select the 'seed capital' for the next world. Basically those selected by the lady aka Grail knights etc will be the high elves equivalent of next world. And the current elves like Araloth etc will become their gods.

[Chameon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/48crpc/warhammer_can_someone_explain_the_relationship/ This explains it pretty clearly. I'm personally not willing to delve into the Warhammer the End Times collection too heavily, but it has been asserted by the vast majority of people who have read it that a being of around godly power seems to have poofed away all of bretonnia's grail knights to protect them from the end times, which is quite the task to have done and does not read to me as something any old schmuck mage could do, so I'm obliged to believe the crazy lady who can do that when she claims she is both the Lady of the Lake and a Goddess. That said, End Times writing is genuinely bad, so....yeah. Whether you have that as your personal interpretation of Canon is up for your own debate. I still enjoy the theories that she was a nascent chaos god who primarily had good traits, and will often play my Bretonnians under those imaginings.

[SpiffyGonzales]

Originally posted by Chameon:

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/48crpc/warhammer_can_someone_explain_the_relationship/ This explains it pretty clearly. I'm personally not willing to delve into the Warhammer the End Times collection too heavily, but it has been asserted by the vast majority of people who have read it that a being of around godly power seems to have poofed away all of bretonnia's grail knights to protect them from the end times, which is quite the task to have done and does not read to me as something any old schmuck mage could do, so I'm obliged to believe the crazy lady who can do that when she claims she is both the Lady of the Lake and a Goddess. That said, End Times writing is genuinely bad, so....yeah. Whether you have that as your personal interpretation of Canon is up for your own debate. I still enjoy the theories that she was a nascent chaos god who primarily had good traits, and will often play my Bretonnians under those imaginings.

So basically its not even like an "and then this happened" so much as a "yea that didnt happen and heres what we say happened NOW"
So it just depends on how you like end times. Okay but what about now that they're bringing warhammer fantasy back does that mean ET an AoS didnt happen or what?

[Chameon]

Originally posted by General Skarr:

So basically its not even like an "and then this happened" so much as a "yea that didnt happen and heres what we say happened NOW"
So it just depends on how you like end times. Okay but what about now that they're bringing warhammer fantasy back does that mean ET an AoS didnt happen or what?

Depends on how they write it. For reference, when I say that, I mean the god itself -stated- it was her and then poofed away all the grail knights as I understand it. As in, big monologue, then poof goes all of the Grail Knights in Bretonnia.

Age of Sigmar is likely continuing, maybe they axe it, but I suspect they might continue it and maybe make it basically "Warhammer Cracked" where they do things that don't demand too much lore or as an alternate history.

As for what lore Warhammer Fantasy's coming back with? Who knows!

[RED /(Weber)\]

No

[Mactalon]

Originally posted by General Skarr:

So basically its not even like an "and then this happened" so much as a "yea that didnt happen and heres what we say happened NOW"
So it just depends on how you like end times. Okay but what about now that they're bringing warhammer fantasy back does that mean ET an AoS didnt happen or what?

From everything they've said so far, they're going to be treating the Old World fantasy in a similar fashion as they treat the Horus Heresy in 40k.

So they'll be expanding on what's already there, filling in gaps, creating new stories, and probably retconning a few things while they're at it but we'll have to wait and see.

The short answer to your OP though is yes, Lileath and LotL are the same being, they did confirm it in the End Times.

[The Sylvan Learning Center]

Originally posted by General Skarr:

Originally posted by GammaZeta430:

*heavy breathing detected

Am confused.

he's insulting you. as a bretonnian it is your duty to smite him and reclaim your honor

[Macho Chunko]

Having a man doesn't make her anyless of a god of courage, nobility and purity thought wtf.
It's the fact that she lied and set up a farce that would make her suspicious althought it was done with good intents, i mean you wouldn't promote chivalric values for your followers and try to basically elevate them to demigods if you just wanted to get rid of them.

[zefyris]

So are we going to ignore that regardless of who she is, the Lady is the only reason Bretonnian survived their early threats, and that she did treat very well Bretonnian afterwards, granting her knights powerful boons and the like? That she also prevented chaos corruption that plagued and ruined Empire consistantly?

Yep, "she's elven, so nothing counts anymore" :rolleyes:

Even if she is, it won't change the fact that it was a good "god" worth being revered by the Bretonnian as she both saved them and kept protecting and helping them with only asking faith from them in return. Just saying, when you look at the WH pantheon, this is actually a WAY BETTER DEAL than most other factions got with their respective gods.


Leaving aside the end times that ImO are not canon to WHF but canon to AoS instead, there are hints that the LAdy of the Lake is related to elven gods through some WE lore for example, and it make sense as well considering that Bretonnian are living on a former Elven Colony.
So even if the Lady of the Lake is not Lilaeth herself (as gods should NOT be able to materialize themselves in the WH world with the low magic winds there is nowadays (at least as long as the Vortex remains active), she's probably some kind of eternal elven god avatar or similar, just like Everqueens and Ariel are, or like Aenarion became after going through the fire.

[SpiffyGonzales]

Originally posted by The Sylvan Learning Center:

Originally posted by General Skarr:

Am confused.

he's insulting you. as a bretonnian it is your duty to smite him and reclaim your honor

ZEN BY ZE LADY HE VILL FACE ZE WRATH OF ZE GRAIL!!! PEASENTS!!! STOP PLAYING IN FILTH SO ZAT WE MAY SQUASH ZIS CURR!!!!

[SpiffyGonzales]

Originally posted by zefyris:

So are we going to ignore that regardless of who she is, the Lady is the only reason Bretonnian survived their early threats, and that she did treat very well Bretonnian afterwards, granting her knights powerful boons and the like? That she also prevented chaos corruption that plagued and ruined Empire consistantly?

Yep, "she's elven, so nothing counts anymore" :rolleyes:

Even if she is, it won't change the fact that it was a good "god" worth being revered by the Bretonnian as she both saved them and kept protecting and helping them with only asking faith from them in return. Just saying, when you look at the WH pantheon, this is actually a WAY BETTER DEAL than most other factions got with their respective gods.


Leaving aside the end times that ImO are not canon to WHF but canon to AoS instead, there are hints that the LAdy of the Lake is related to elven gods through some WE lore for example, and it make sense as well considering that Bretonnian are living on a former Elven Colony.
So even if the Lady of the Lake is not Lilaeth herself (as gods should NOT be able to materialize themselves in the WH world with the low magic winds there is nowadays (at least as long as the Vortex remains active), she's probably some kind of eternal elven god avatar or similar, just like Everqueens and Ariel are, or like Aenarion became after going through the fire.

Im not saying nothing counts, im just saying that it doesnt make sense.

Look at it this way, you are a crusader, fighting for the holy land in the name of god. One day after the muslims push you out you find out that buhdism is right and the universe chose this path for you, its okay though cuz you get to go to nirvanna.

I mean, you wouldn't be a LITTLE mad?

And honestly I'm fine with her being an elf XD
Heck she could be an orc and id be okay with it. It was just the idea that she wasnt HER you know? She deserves to be her own in my opinion.

All that being said im no lore expert. Heck im only really into it cuz the game, but its just something ive been wondering for ages... of sigmar :D jk

[Wh♂♂par]

Being mad about something, doesn't mean it's making no sense. It's just showing that blindly following gods could be a trick from a good source, too, not just evil.

[SpiffyGonzales]

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

Being mad about something, doesn't mean it's making no sense. It's just showing that blindly following gods could be a trick from a good source, too, not just evil.

XD i think you missed my point. The grail knights mad i mean, not me.