Whats the point of high elf princes?

[Eldrin]

The princesses are flat out better, as soon as they get on a dragon they can shoot while moving and while the dragon smashes, the prince just has his melee that gets replaced by the dragon.

[Aenarion]

Originalmente postado por Lvl One Mage:

Originalmente postado por Lampros:

The Dragon's stats become added to the mounted character's stats, rather than replacing them altogether.

Is this the case for all lords with mounts?

I've been trying to figure out why giving Fay Enchantress her Silvaron would make her defenses attack, and weapon strength much worse than they currently are so I haven't given it to her yet.

Be aware that the skills screen is wildly inaccurate when it comes to setting out stat changes from mounts. If you hover over the mount skill it seems to compare 'new mount with no skills or equipment' with 'status quo including all skills and equipment', i.e. new mounts are made to look much worse than they actually are. If you really want to know what a mount does you either need to spend the SP or look it up on Honga, Gamepedia, etc.

Here are some of the actual stat changes from taking a monster mount for LLs. Five stats are covered: hp, armour, MA, MD, damage (I assume speed and CB always increase):

Louen +1221, 0, -4, -5, 0 (but becomes AP)
Malekith +2367, -10, -11, -3, +100
Azhag +990, 0, -10, -12, +80
Kroq-gar +2457, 0, -5, -4, +100
Wulfrik +7482, -30, -20, -12, +35
Franz +1161, 0, -9, 0, +20
Settra (warsphynx) +3615, +15, -24, -13, +20
Mannfred +2427, -20, -24, -4, +40

So taking a big monster typically increases HP, damage, CB and speed, while decreasing MA and MD.

Looks like the corresponding changes for Fay Enchantress (foot to Silvaron) are:

+698, 0, 0, -12, 0

The lost melee defence is a pretty bitter pill to swallow for such a small HP buff and no damage, though you do get the speed and CB as well.

[XXXThe69God]

You take a prince for deadly onslaught so he's still a better melee combatant

[Zane87]

Originalmente postado por Lvl One Mage:

Originalmente postado por Lampros:

The Dragon's stats become added to the mounted character's stats, rather than replacing them altogether.

Is this the case for all lords with mounts?

I've been trying to figure out why giving Fay Enchantress her Silvaron would make her defenses attack, and weapon strength much worse than they currently are so I haven't given it to her yet.

The stats you see when hovering over the mount do not take lord bonuses into account.

Try it out by yourself, after you give Fay her mount, the stats will be higher than shown

[Green Raven]

why are people accusing OP of trolling? Its a fair question.

I usually prefer princes myself, though, becouse they can hold up better when attacked.

[A_COOC]

Originalmente postado por Green Raven:

why are people accusing OP of trolling? Its a fair question.

I usually prefer princes myself, though, becouse they can hold up better when attacked.

I don't see anyone calling OP a troll though. Infact OP responding to a "troll" comment blatantly addressed as such and still seemly managing to get upset/annoyed/irritated,etc is the closet thing to trolling in this entire thread. Unless there are some deleted comments I'm not aware of.

[Kaybern]

Originalmente postado por SwiftXShadow:

meanwhile the princess can still pew pew her bow on top of the dragon all while the dragon smash in melee.

doing so makes the unit lose vigor quicker

i tunr off ranged on units like mammoths and arnaroks when they are in melee

[Pimpin Pippin]

the prince still gets the melee skills and abilities that help his dragon mount fight better in melee.

[Cacomistle]

Originalmente postado por 🎀 A_COCO 🎀:

Originalmente postado por Green Raven:

why are people accusing OP of trolling? Its a fair question.

I usually prefer princes myself, though, becouse they can hold up better when attacked.

I don't see anyone calling OP a troll though. Infact OP responding to a "troll" comment blatantly addressed as such and still seemly managing to get upset/annoyed/irritated,etc is the closet thing to trolling in this entire thread. Unless there are some deleted comments I'm not aware of.

Second comment in the thread. Although thats far from everyone and I didn't see any others.

[Iriath Zhul]

How does anyone ever have the luxury of picking between a prince and princess when it's those Influence bonuses you want?

[Cacomistle]

Originalmente postado por Iriath Zhul:

How does anyone ever have the luxury of picking between a prince and princess when it's those Influence bonuses you want?

Yeah thats a good point. I just pick whoever has better influence bonuses for whatever army I want to make. Usually early on thats princesses (cause they seem to get the ones that buff archers), and later its princes (as they get the ones that buff dragons and high tier infantry).

[Iriath Zhul]

Originalmente postado por Boneripper:

Originalmente postado por Iriath Zhul:

How does anyone ever have the luxury of picking between a prince and princess when it's those Influence bonuses you want?

Yeah thats a good point. I just pick whoever has better influence bonuses for whatever army I want to make. Usually early on thats princesses (cause they seem to get the ones that buff archers), and later its princes (as they get the ones that buff dragons and high tier infantry).

Yeah pretty much all my lords end up being Archer Princesses until I need a prince to lead the 19 Star Dragons.

[Burek]

it is the abilities and items that make the difference.

i have asked that myself, why would i ever take the prince over the princess if i will put them on a dragon. i thought that having +4 def and +att could never compensate for the lack of a ranged weapon. but than i took a look at their abilities. the prince has soome pretty good items and abilities. not that the ones from the priness are bad, but the price is much more effctive in meele. if you get deadly onslaught and the blade of bell-korhadis, you have access to a 40% armor piercing damage bonus (and +26 att and the rest of the buffs) on a 90sec cooldown and a pretty decent duration. i do not know that any unit has greater armor piercing values than the HE dragon. it is even biiger than kholek's or. the pricess also has some damage increasing items but they are weaker and have unly 1 use. the price also has access to stand your ground which is pretty good too. i somehow like the prices better but the price with his abilities and items is no joke. i just tested it. the ai had the prince and did not get his charge bonus. the princess routed by the time she got the prince down to 50%. deadly onslaught also gives a +36% charge bonus, that would have eneded much worse for the princess if the ai was smart enogh to get his charge.

[A.Pot]

It should be very obvious. The Princes are for melee and the Princesses are for ranged. Princes have shields and are more durable, Princesses have their bows. They have the same mount options but when leveling up, the Princes have more skills to improve their melee combat capabilities. Same with the two Dreadlord variants.

[Lampros]

Originalmente postado por al_potenciano:

It should be very obvious. The Princes are for melee and the Princesses are for ranged. Princes have shields and are more durable, Princesses have their bows. They have the same mount options but when leveling up, the Princes have more skills to improve their melee combat capabilities. Same with the two Dreadlord variants.

It frankly makes zero sense to go Princess on a dragon mount. If you opt for the Princess to be a shooter, then the dragon mount goes mostly to waste - an exorbitantly expensive one at that. But if you want the Princess to be in melee, then why would you take her? The Prince has so much better stats and abilities - if you add them all up at the end-game.

But all that is a moot point already for me. Even without the dragon entering the equation a melee Lord is inherently stronger than a ranged Lord, ceteris paribus, because a ranged character does far less damage than a melee or a caster Lord - and generally more survivable, too, unless you can micro the ranged Lord out of harm's way the entire combat.

[Aenarion]

^ I could see the princess on a dragon work for very niche builds, like a kiting based army that wasn't supposed to engage in melee ex

Originalmente postado por Boneripper:

Originalmente postado por rymeintrinseca:

- In the early game a prince has the defensive stats (MD+armour) to blob half an army, setting them up for vortex spells etc.
- Even after you get a dragon the extra melee stats (MA and MD) are still very useful.
- Most of the better traits are prince-specific. Princesses are great with seaguard but drop off in the late game.
- If you want lorefully-named lords you'll pretty quickly run out of names for princesses, unfortunately.

Sea guard don't really drop off though. They get like actually double missle damage, and pretty dang high melee defense and shields. I never confederated alith anar who apparently gives a factionwide missle buff, but even without him I've gotten like 50-55 missle damage.

Basically in a decently high level army, you're looking at units that are probably like twice as effective as they are when you first recruit them with no abilities. So you're looking at an army that costs far less than a traditional doomstack, yet can beat pretty much any doomstack. I don't see where they fall off.

Seaguard are still only doing <25% of that 50 damage as AP. Sisters, by contrast, can be buffed to similar damage levels and >70% of it is AP. Given that most of what you face in late game is armoured, it really is a dramatic difference in performance level.