Are Kroxigors really bad?

[XXXThe69God]

So I never see Kroxigors being used and after looking to see why it's because they are bad at killing other monstrous infantry as they lose to trolls. However considering they're anti infantry they're pretty fantastic at fighting infantry. High armor high leadership and high damage as well as a high anti infantry bonus they win against Black Orks Swordmasters Executioners I haven't tested them against Chaos infantry but still they're very good at killing infantry without being as big as a target as something like a stegadon.

[yoda gaming]

the problem with them is that they are a big target and focused archer fire makes them rampage easily

[RED /(Weber)\]

They're pretty good early game, but later on they get pushed and edged out, in my experience.

I normally just have 1 unit an army at that point.

Its not that they're bad...just compared to the rest of the current Lizardmen roster there's better picks once you can afford and get.

[pin]

They are bad.

Their equivalent are armored trolls and crypt horrors. Trolls regen health. Crypt horrors have the cruicial poison application.

[Hyen《A》 ♧]

I normally hide them or keep them behind. Cycle charging kroxigors are scary. Hitting from the sides alongside temple guards also make them really valuable.

[Wyvern]

Theyre good, arguably great, but a lot of people are clueless about using them properly. In campaign you can stack them on your TG line to get AL coverage against enemy monsters, while krox completely dumpster enemy infantry. Now sure, you can argue they arent excellent against something like PG or Chosen Halberds but theyre still decent, and quite frankly no worse than most of the big monsters youre forced to use otherwise. Top tier AL infantry is simply a lizardman weakness.

The main weaknesses of krox are primal instincts and mediocre baseline stats(anybody who says theyre bad is quite frankly deluded, the vast majority of monstrous infantry has pretty meh stats, with the only worthwhile exceptions being trolls and minotaurs, maybe treekin for their niche). In return they have great armor and built in missile resist, as well as a monstrous bvi that lets them shred through basically any small unit they come across. Even compared to big dinos, krox are really solid. Do keep in mind that big dinos, although having terror, slightly better armor and not bleeding damage, have far inferior damage output overall in comparison to kroxigors. Something like 1/5th-1/3rd against infantry. This actually does matter when you need to beat down enemy infantry before they beat down your own infantry. Even an ancient stegadon might not cut the mustard where a block of kroxigors will.

[Hyen《A》 ♧]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Theyre good, arguably great, but a lot of people are clueless about using them properly. In campaign you can stack them on your TG line to get AL coverage against enemy monsters, while krox completely dumpster enemy infantry. Now sure, you can argue they arent excellent against something like PG or Chosen Halberds but theyre still decent, and quite frankly no worse than most of the big monsters youre forced to use otherwise. Top tier AL infantry is simply a lizardman weakness.

The main weaknesses of krox are primal instincts and mediocre baseline stats(anybody who says theyre bad is quite frankly deluded, the vast majority of monstrous infantry has pretty meh stats, with the only worthwhile exceptions being trolls and minotaurs, maybe treekin for their niche). In return they have great armor and built in missile resist, as well as a monstrous bvi that lets them shred through basically any small unit they come across. Even compared to big dinos, krox are really solid. Do keep in mind that big dinos, although having terror, slightly better armor and not bleeding damage, have far inferior damage output overall in comparison to kroxigors. Something like 1/5th-1/3rd against infantry. This actually does matter when you need to beat down enemy infantry before they beat down your own infantry. Even an ancient stegadon might not cut the mustard where a block of kroxigors will.

^- this. Lizardmen has a saying. Everyone has a duty and role to fulfill. Nobody is useless :P

[KDubya]

In campaign, especially with Kroc Gar, you can tech and lord buff your Saurus Warriors with shields to be much better than your Kroxigores. Saurus get there buffs earlier and more of them.

Kroxigores look cool but your better off with just more buffed Saurus Warriors with shields.

[Be Happy]

In campaign almost every unit can be great. Kroxigor are not that bad. But in multiplayer yeah, they're not really good.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Be Happy:

In campaign almost every unit can be great. Kroxigor are not that bad. But in multiplayer yeah, they're not really good.

Theyre good/decent in some MU's in QM, like empire, high elves or dwarves. Theyre more of a niche pick though, just like monsters in general are a bit of a niche pick.

[Be Happy]

Regarding multiplayer.

The only time i though kroxigor can be good is against dwarves (not so much since the new slayer with great weapon) and vampire. Kroxigor is a unit with stat line designed to munch through infantry (preferably armored one). This doesn't make it good.

But even now with their light boost (slight hp and missile resist) they still are nuked by projectiles. Also they don't deal enough damage, and don't expect them to pierce through line to get to their backline. They just fight, and loose at some point without doing much.

You always will prefere to get feral stegadon (1250 gold) and feral bastillodon (700) to fit +- the same role and do better.

So in the end... 90% of the time, don't take kroxigor if you don't want to be disapointed.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Be Happy:

Regarding multiplayer.

The only time i though kroxigor can be good is against dwarves (not so much since the new slayer with great weapon) and vampire. Kroxigor is a unit with stat line designed to munch through infantry (preferably armored one). This doesn't make it good.

But even now with their light boost (slight hp and missile resist) they still are nuked by projectiles. Also they don't deal enough damage, and don't expect them to pierce through line to get to their backline. They just fight, and loose at some point without doing much.

You always will prefere to get feral stegadon (1250 gold) and feral bastillodon (700) to fit +- the same role and do better.

So in the end... 90% of the time, don't take kroxigor if you don't want to be disapointed.

Feral units rampage more easily and their damage output really isnt that good. For example, any decent empire player will just hardcounter lizard infantry with greatswords and then shoot down your big boys/block them with cav while they arent doing enough damage to kill the gswords. The fact that krox have ~1200 DPS to a Feral stegs ~450 or feral bastiladons ~300 is a massive game changer. It also makes it much harder for the empire to prioritize. If they spend their shooting on your big single model cav/large hunters(which you should always bring) they arent shooting your krox, and their frontline is buckling at a prodigious rate. If they focus on your krox, then your big boys can hound their backline and run amok. If you bring ferals you just shoot them once or twice to proc the rampage and are promptly freed up to shoot important targets while they take forever to chew through your big stuff. People honestly underestimate krox at their own expense imho. Sure they arent stellar, but theyre really no worse than any of the lizardmen alternatives.

[Be Happy]

Yeah sure, because kroxigor don't have rampage on their own.

[AVGAMER]

I've found kroxigar really good in the campagin. They can smash through most things and are quite cheap and only 1 turn to create. In mp rampage makes them unreliable.

[Aenarion]

They're a really nice option against armoured non-AL infantry. The problem is that LM already have a thousand other monster-shaped solutions to this particular threat, none of which have the kroxi's weakness against large units. You can take them in numbers against dwarfs but not against much else.

This brings us onto the other problem with them in campaign, which are the high recruitment barriers. You can only recruit them with a capital at lvl 4 and two buildings, which is the same as temple guard and more than stegadon, both far superior all round units. They are really a mid-tier unit with the recruitment requirements of a top tier unit.

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

IN CAMPAIGN,

Kroxigors are "Hey, you ranked up your Skink Barracks to L3. Have some monsters as a reward."

They're good units in their own right, good at bashing infantry. However, there's a better T3 unit that is a load tankier and that is the Stegadon.

Kroxigors are good damagers if a little squishy (though all monstrous inf are). It's just that their building takes yonks (of time and money) to build and they require the T4 Forge - you're not getting them early.

In this time and with this money you could have built the T3 Beast spot - even in a minor settlement (though that'd be kinda stupid) - and spammed the heck out of Stegadons instead.

Furthermore, Stegadons require much less micro and do not need infantry backup. The reason no infantry backup is important? You can now cast Chain Lightning, Comet, or Thunderbolt (though they nerfed Wind Blast ) directly on top of your Stegadon and annhilate their army that way.

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Theyre good, arguably great,<they're okay at bashing enemy Halberds in which Lizards have a hard time at>

I find there are better ways to mulch enemy Halberds:
- Shoot them with lazer lizards
- Send a lone Stegadon out there to melee them ~40m from your Temple Guard lines. Why? So you can cast Chain Lightning, Comet, and Thunderbolt on top of all this conveniently blobbed Halberd infantry.

That said, I have never experimented with Kroxigors, because Stegadons do a lot of other jobs better. The AI doesn't have the intelligence to spam a full stack of Phoenix Guard... and if they somehow get one they'll invariably try and blob your lord which you send out in front, while your Heavens priests throw down literally every spell except Wind Blast on top of them.

(Fun Fact: Spells don't stack. Cast two Harmonic Convergences and you reset the timer. Cast Overcast Harmonic Convergance and Harmonic Convergance, and that stacks because they're two different spells. There are valid reasons to bring two wizards of the same lore to a battle!)

This actually does matter when you need to beat down enemy infantry before they beat down your own infantry. Even an ancient stegadon might not cut the mustard where a block of kroxigors will.

Aaaand that's a time to select your Skink Priest (Heavens, of course!) and select Urannon's Thunderbolt. :P


EDIT: massive ninja by rymeintrinseca!