Stacking units on top of one another ...

[Nico Snow]

I was wondering if the is a disadvantage to stacking ... like Skeletons w/shields and ghouls on the front line of my battle formation? It looks crowded but is there some other penalty? Thanks

[Nico Snow]

I watch alot and learned much , however I do have a question about formations. Does it matter how you set up calvary? Meaning ... if you spread out your line of riders do they hit less efffectively compared to if you keep them with less wide and more depth to their formation? Will they push harder is deeper in ranks?

[Nico Snow]

Thats what she said* lol

[A_COOC]

Originally posted by Nico Snow:

I watch alot and learned much , however I do have a question about formations. Does it matter how you set up calvary? Meaning ... if you spread out your line of riders do they hit less efffectively compared to if you keep them with less wide and more depth to their formation? Will they push harder is deeper in ranks?

When a charge first makes contact, you actually deal damage based on difference in velocity and knock people down. If you spread them out further you'll deal more damage on that initial impact, but it isn't worth it since you're setting up your individual models to get surrounded more easily if you were to charge them in a horizontal line. Keep them compact and pull shock cav out after 5 seconds. Pull regular cav out at 10 seconds. As the charge bonus affects weapon strength and melee attack. And decays over the course of either 15 or 30 seconds. Unsure which one it is.

[glythe]

I always number my units.

After the phase or durnig the phase where you can gamble for wind you can number your units like any standard rts (hold control and press a number. press that number again later without control and you will select that unit).

My infantry is usually 1, my archers are 2, spellcaster/melee lord 3, general is 4, and special teams units are 5-9 (I reserve 0 for units that are too low number to fight that I am pulling back so they dont die).

[Nico Snow]

Thanks Coco and Glythe ! Im going to give those a try right ... now. I have a Hex mouse so hotkeying those units will be a real wrist saver.
=)

[Aenarion]

Back to the original question, I wouldn't in general say that stacking is a good idea. It basically means you are going narrow when you have the troops to go wide, and usually wider is better for that sweet flanking.

That said, there are certain combinations that make stacking worthwhile. A common tactic is to put trash or defensive units in front to take the enemy charge, then run your more aggressive units through. So in that case stacking is a good idea simply to deprive the enemy of their charge bonus against the units you actually care about.

Similarly, you can put infantry in front to tie down spears or halberds, then run big bois through, who won't have to deal with the enemy charge defence. This is quite niche though - ideally you wouldn't want large entities near pointy sticks at all, and anything cav speed is better on the flanks anyway.

So it basically comes down to whether you have a combination of troops that will do better together than they will separately, often due to charge bonus manipulation, and even then you need to have a plan for what you're doing and put them into melee in the right order (in your example, I guess skellies before ghouls, though it might be better to go wide).

[glythe]

Stacking helps tremendously vs arrows but massively increases the damage you take from artillery (or from a cav charge).

Before we had magic with Total Warhammer you would often see MP games of Rome II where people stacked their army so that they had trash units multi stacked on top of good units.

In the past this was slightly more effective because shields were more or less a damage soak (read as before you can damage the model you had to "break" the shield and eat through its protection value).

One thing I noticed that is different between TW WH I vs II is that when the first game launched stacking all your infantry for a siege had no ill effects. The infantry moved quickly together.

On the release of the second game I immediately noticed that if you make a stacked horde and try to go through a gate the stacking really makes it almost impossible to move anywhere as the units are in a sort of traffic jam (not to mention all the defenders who would block you at the gate... but after they are gone it can take a few minutes for the horde to sort out how to move through a gate).


Early on after the release of the first game someone made a mod that disabled the ability to man castle walls (what a lovely mod btw). CA did something that caused that mod not to work anymore either on purpose or by accident.

[not_slutQueen]

2 main benefits:
1) models with splash (monsters, but also units like Doomfire Warlocks) splash onto more targets and don’t 1-shot models as much. Generally speaking it’s better to have many injured models than a few dead ones (possibility to heal, replenishment at end of battle).
2) if you mix 2 units there is a sort of natural selection happening on the frontline. I will illustrate this through a useful example and you can understand the principles from it. You have 2 units, Zombies and Crypt Horrors. Zombies have high HP but don’t deal much damage; they die easily but it doesn't matter. Crypt Horrors in contrast are heavy hitters, but not very tanky. Even if they’re not fighting proper counters like spearmen, they will take a lot of damage. Alone these units are both bad. But when you stack them on top of each other the returns are more than proportional: Crypt Horrors do the damage and cheap Zombies tank hits; effectively, Crypt Horrors borrow Zombies’s HP pool and become more durable.

You can translate this example to any kind of stacking: e.g. Grave Guard mixed with Zombies take less hits (but also deal less damage); ideally, in thia case you wanna use Zombies for soaking up the enemy infantry/cavalry charge and tire them out a little and then use Grave Guard. Natural selection will ensure that soon your frontline will be consisting of almost only Grave Guard and the use of Zombies ensures that the enemy is already tired when your GG enters the combat fresh.

Other factions can use similar tactics/thought process.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Nico Snow:

I watch alot and learned much , however I do have a question about formations. Does it matter how you set up calvary? Meaning ... if you spread out your line of riders do they hit less efffectively compared to if you keep them with less wide and more depth to their formation? Will they push harder is deeper in ranks?

Cavalry should always be spread out unless youre trying to shoot a narrow gap or looking to circle around an artillery battery(if youre in a wide formation a cannon can take down 5-6 models a shot if youre circling around). The wider impact area is incredibly valuable, far more so than a model or two getting stuck. The only narrow formation that actually helps penetration as far as im aware is the brettonian lance formation, which is brutal on all sorts of levels.

[hammerinn]

Originally posted by Procyon:

Artillery and spells.

Last night I fought a battle with the map that has only a couple lanes and the ai only went down one.
I had 5 mortars.
It was glorious.

[Zane87]

Love to stack early game as VC.

The main infantry are just fodder anyway and stacked means I can heal all of them with one cast.

Then my hammer units have a better time doing the actual killing.



This all is working great except that one time fighting the empire 3 Vs my 2.

Made two fronts, one huge blob and then the elite units doing the killing

Their usual units were no match but I oversaw one single unit of outriders with grenades.


Long story short, despite constant healing this unit scored 2k casualties until I finally mass routed those blasted sigmarites...

[Nico Snow]

@rymeintrinseca: More experienced players seem to put alot of weight on the effects of a good charge, as you have discribed. Over the last day I have been trying to micro manage my cav and use them like a battering ram and less like a "one and done" or "Hey diddle , right up the middle" kind of tactic. Meaning I send them in ... they hit ... they fight ... see what happens. Doing the ramming fist technique seems to be the word of the day. Thank you!

@glythe: See thats kind of what I was seeing ... when units get stacked up they seem to get in each others way, especially at the front door of castles. But even though the units are playing pinball with each other , getting the synergistic benifits of cheap DEF units taking it on the chin while more expensive glass cannons use them as fodder is a most valuble trade off. It occurs to me that stacking is more for a defensive(turtle) tactic to use. Mostly because if you try to move them together I forsee logistics problems. Right? Does it suck to try and move stacked guys together? The proper use of his tactic really is profound and seperates the wheat from the chaff. Will take some time to find the combos that are most effcient both tacticly and financially.

@൏൏൏൏൏൏൏൏൏൏ : I never assumed that when they are stacked the damage is shared between both units. So if you have zombies and GG because the zombies have less HP and over time they will be chewed up and gone while the GG having more HP will be left to fight ... minus whatever loses are the equivilant of the Z's HP? If thats right then with a little bit of math and someone could figure how many GG or (whomever) should be left when the fodder unit is eliminated. But if the HP pool is shared due to proximity then someone can't choose to attack GG and the zombies will be ignored. Did I say that right? Know what I mean? Wait ... did I misunderstand? Hmmm

@Wyvern : Go wide or go home ... got it. I kind of thought of the Brettonians as a more horsey Imperials ... I must give them a try. Hope the only difference isn't just the ponies. Thanks

@hammerinn : Thanks for sharing ... I will imagine your glory in great detail.

@Zane87: Don't stack if there is considerable AoE opponents OR prepare and deal with those asap. I like it thanks.

Phew ... ok ... I think I can see more clearly. Thanks to all for the tips and tactics . Im not ready for multiplayer but cant wait to go try these out! Off I go !