Recruitment system is HORRIBLE!

[PuttBlug]

All total war games after Medieval 2 have trash recruitment systems, it was perfect in Medieval 2, why change it? Now there's no reason for having lesser infantry units for example once you upgrade your barracks to a high enough level.

Newer TW games will greatly benefit from the old system, stop simplifying TW games, they were simple enough back then to begin with!

[Elitewrecker PT]

Yes there is. It's called faster recruitment on an emergency and lower upkeep if you're having some economy struggles.

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

Yes there is. It's called faster recruitment on an emergency and lower upkeep if you're having some economy struggles.

Sure, if you're having trouble maintaining a strong economy in a TW game then you ought to learn how to play, it's super easy to accumulate money and a steady income if you know how to do it.

But even if we assume one is incapable of managing his finances, there's no good reason why recruitment has been so oversimplified since M2TW.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Being easy or hard isn't the point, stuff happens sometimes and you might have momentary issues.

Besides, are you talking about the limited number of each units you could recruit at a time in medieval, and you had to wait some turns to recruit more?

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

Being easy or hard isn't the point, stuff happens sometimes and you might have momentary issues.

It's better to have a more realistic recruitment system than a bad one though.

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

Besides, are you talking about the limited number of each units you could recruit at a time in medieval, and you had to wait some turns to recruit more?

Yes. Medieval 2 but also the Stainless Steel mod had the best recruitment system than any other TW game. It seemed realistic and fun and as far as I'm aware there was no good reason for them to be replaced by the boring one all TW games since Empire TW have.

[Krude]

That's just your opinion man

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Noh:

That's just your opinion man

haha True, and I haven't heard a good argument against it yet.

[Gray Riders]

Medieval II's recruitment system led to a bunch of units from classic Medieval I being cut or removed from factions that historically had them to fit with the recruitment system, so I was never a fan. I do dislike the "elite spam" later Total War games have had, but I have a different suggestion for how to manage it; tiered manpower pools.

To use Medieval II as an example, you'd have a large amount of lower class troops (militia, most archers), a smaller pool of the somewhat wealthier class making up sergeants and non-noble men-at-arms, and a small pool of nobility for knights and other noble-class units if appropriate. You could have more than three types for factions where it's appropriate.

Such a system would fir in Warhammer, too. Say the Greenskins. They'd have a inexhaustible supply of regular orcs and goblins, but fewer Big 'Uns, Black Orcs, and monsters.
The Empire would have plenty of State Troops but smaller pools for the nobility making up the knights and another pool of veterans to make up Greatswords and Outriders.

[harleyquinrazer]

Originally posted by Gray Riders:

Medieval II's recruitment system led to a bunch of units from classic Medieval I being cut or removed from factions that historically had them to fit with the recruitment system, so I was never a fan. I do dislike the "elite spam" later Total War games have had, but I have a different suggestion for how to manage it; tiered manpower pools.

To use Medieval II as an example, you'd have a large amount of lower class troops (militia, most archers), a smaller pool of the somewhat wealthier class making up sergeants and non-noble men-at-arms, and a small pool of nobility for knights and other noble-class units if appropriate. You could have more than three types for factions where it's appropriate.

Such a system would fir in Warhammer, too. Say the Greenskins. They'd have a inexhaustible supply of regular orcs and goblins, but fewer Big 'Uns, Black Orcs, and monsters.
The Empire would have plenty of State Troops but smaller pools for the nobility making up the knights and another pool of veterans to make up Greatswords and Outriders.

Isn't that just a variant of the Tomb Kings recruitment system?

[PuttBlug]

Originally posted by Gray Riders:

but I have a different suggestion for how to manage it; tiered manpower pools.

To use Medieval II as an example, you'd have a large amount of lower class troops (militia, most archers), a smaller pool of the somewhat wealthier class making up sergeants and non-noble men-at-arms, and a small pool of nobility for knights and other noble-class units if appropriate.

True that'd be even better than M2tw. I believe that's a mod for Rome 2 which added population classes to draw from for each type of unit, but in case the developers find that too hard to do or believe the average TW customer is too dumb to appreciate such "depth" in a recruitment system, the M2 would suffice. But as I said that's a better and more realistic system indeed.

[Mr. Wiggles]

Medieval 2 sucks, seriously

[Gray Riders]

Originally posted by harleyquinrazer:

Isn't that just a variant of the Tomb Kings recruitment system?

Tomb Kings use a hard cap on every individual unit; exactly 2 Grave Guard and exactly 1 Grave Guard with a halberd, for instance.

This would be more like "you can have six longbeards; it can be three with shields and three with great weapons or all with great weapons, or any other mix."

Some factions do only have 1 unit of some types (Big Uns are missing most of their equipment options for instance so there's only 1 type for them) so it would be very similar for them. It's too late to add such a system to Warhammer (by the devs, at least. It might be possible with modding but it would require a lot of scripting, I think), although in the theoretical world where it wasn't we might have had more of the tabletop game's missing equipment options so there'd be, say, three types of Big 'Un.

[harleyquinrazer]

But the proposed system in question seems to suggest the tabletop game where players can have a maximum of x number of units above a certain tier and no more regardless of how big the empire has become.

Not sure how that's so different from the Tomb Kings recruitment system, aside from the limit expanding depending on the size of the player's empire and which recruitment buildings are constructed as turf gets bigger.

[not_slutQueen]

I agree, aside from some sometimes apparent polishing issues (reinforcement bug, random DoWs, rogue armies behaving very stragely and a little abuse of the “united against us” mechanics by the AI or rarely the game even CTDing), this game could do with a revised upkeep system. Either make the upkeep penalty for additional armies count only for certain tiers of troops, or limit how many elites you can recruit. MP balancing is fine for the most part, but SP could definitely use some love in terms of early game units becoming obsolete late-game.

Also changes to many technologies but particularly to Lord skill trees are needed. Yellow line is fine most of the times with few exceptions like Warlock Engineer artillery buff stacking. Red line is HORRIBLE and ruins gaming experience, this will be your main tool to cheese through 90% of the campaign. If we do need to buff unit stats at all costs artificially, then at least it should be a fair buff and it should be hard to choose which units to buff, so skills like “Honest Steel” (buff ALL the good infantry units you’ll ever need including Greatswords!) or the HE “Master Strategist” (buff to White Lions, Swordmasters AND Phoenix Guard - are you kidding???) should be a) toned down (+5 MA and +3MD on lvl 3 or the other way around) and b) restructured so that you would want to minmax with anything other than Greatswords + Tanks + Gunners or Phoenix Guard + Sisters of Avelorn. For example, more red-line buffs to units that are weak late-game like Tiranoc Chariot or Free Company could be interesting and help spice up the experience.

Blue line: basically never used unless you’re desperate for the only good ability in this line, Lightning Strike. In some campaigns this line is necessary but all in all most bonuses it grants are irrelevant.

[Mojo]

"It's not right, it's not wrong, it's just different"

[𝒦.ℒ.ℬ.]

Originally posted by Supreme leader Aladeen:

Originally posted by Noh:

That's just your opinion man

haha True, and I haven't heard a good argument against it yet.

Nice baiting bro.

get a grip.