Tomb kind chariots

[polerino]

I hate tomb king chariots.

Them having like 9 models on large is their downfall imo. It might be because i'm just not using them right but i find that like all chariots they get 1 or 2 models stuck in combat and if you arent spamming movement orders it drags the rest of them back into combat. Plus they feel really squishy, even compared to other chariots, and have pretty bad leadership, so losing models is easy and butchers their already poor leadership.

I get that it is meant to try to represent their ability to bring loads of chariots in table top, but it kinda makes me not want to use chariots in the chariot faction

[TVMAN]

lol TKs aren't a chariot faction, they're a construct faction. Chariots are the cheap T1 units you use as your killing power alongside your terrible skeleton warriors in order to survive the early game, and that lasts up until you can finally replace them with constructs and tomb guard. I mean, you only get two flavors of chariots (with or without archers), meanwhile half the roster is made up of various constructs. It's clear where their real strength is.

The trick to chariots is to keep the moving. That means spamming movement orders until they finally get out of combat so you can prep them for another charge. The 'J' keyboard shortcut that forces a unit to do a 180-degree turn also helps get them out of combat quicker. That keyboard shortcut is essential for cycle charging cavalry and works well with chariots too imho.

If you insist on using chariots after getting constructs, switch to the archer ones. They have ranged attacks you can use to skirmish with the enemy before you charge in and have the same stats as regular chariots otherwise, so they're basically a direct upgrade.

[polerino]

Originally posted by TVMAN:

lol TKs aren't a chariot faction, they're a construct faction. Chariots are the cheap T1 units you use as your killing power alongside your terrible skeleton warriors in order to survive the early game, and that lasts up until you can finally replace them with constructs and tomb guard. I mean, you only get two flavors of chariots (with or without archers), meanwhile half the roster is made up of various constructs. It's clear where their real strength is.

The trick to chariots is to keep the moving. That means spamming movement orders until they finally get out of combat so you can prep them for another charge. The 'J' keyboard shortcut that forces a unit to do a 180-degree turn also helps get them out of combat quicker. That keyboard shortcut is essential for cycle charging cavalry and works well with chariots too imho.

If you insist on using chariots after getting constructs, switch to the archer ones. They have ranged attacks you can use to skirmish with the enemy before you charge in and have the same stats as regular chariots otherwise, so they're basically a direct upgrade.

I know they are a construct faction, a faction can have more than one thing or draw to them, it's fair to say that chariots are important to tomb kings and their lore.

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by pole1468:

I know they are a construct faction, a faction can have more than one thing or draw to them, it's fair to say that chariots are important to tomb kings and their lore.

Great, glad you only read the first sentence in my post. Can you read the rest of it please?

[polerino]

Originally posted by TVMAN:

Originally posted by pole1468:

I know they are a construct faction, a faction can have more than one thing or draw to them, it's fair to say that chariots are important to tomb kings and their lore.

Great, glad you only read the first sentence in my post. Can you read the rest of it please?

I did? The only part of it i felt i needed to reply to was the dismissive first statement. I know you're supposed to keep chariots moving, you said about spamming movement orders and i already said that in the post. About the J shortcut i wasn't aware of that, but their turning circle is so poor that it feels like it would just be better off forcing them through rather than turning around, especially if you charge from behind so you are going through your own infantry on the way out. I'll give it a try though so thanks for the heads up

And i never said anything about using after contructs. How do you personally find archer chariots? I reaslise they are the same stats as the regular ones, just with archers, but the archers don't really do a lot in my eyes. All they really do for me is make me feel a little better about it when i leave them out of combat for a little bit because i can't micro them perfectly.

I have a lot of trouble starting as Khemri in general really, savage orcs tear through your skeletons so fast that you are often left with just your chariots, lord and warsphinx after like a minute or 2 of the fight, and your chariots just get swamped. Even if you get 8 out of 9 of them out you will lose one and hurt their leadership. That is my main issue with them, i really enjoy other 3 entity chariots

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by pole1468:

I did? The only part of it i felt i needed to reply to was the dismissive first statement.

It wasn't meant to be dismissive my dude. I was pointing out that, despite appearances, chariots aren't their true strength and that's all. Sorry if it came off as dismissive but that wasn't my intent.

I know you're supposed to keep chariots moving, you said about spamming movement orders and i already said that in the post. About the J shortcut i wasn't aware of that, but their turning circle is so poor

They're also moving when they're turning, which I've found makes it easier for them to disengage. I like to hit J and then immediate start spamming movement commands to get them to break off, and doing that seems to get them out of melee at a pretty quick rate.

that it feels like it would just be better off forcing them through rather than turning around, especially if you charge from behind so you are going through your own infantry on the way out.

Eh, The problem with that is now you're going through two units of mass instead of one. If you're hitting the enemy from the rear, it should be far easier for them to disengage back the way they came as opposed to forcing their way through two blocks of infantry. Either way you're going to be spamming movement orders to get them out of melee, so you might as well take the path of least resistance.

How do you personally find archer chariots? I reaslise they are the same stats as the regular ones, just with archers, but the archers don't really do a lot in my eyes. All they really do for me is make me feel a little better about it when i leave them out of combat for a little bit because i can't micro them perfectly.

You'd be surprised. The archers in the chariots are always firing as long as they're in range of a target, and all of those pot shot kills can quickly add up (especially against unarmored infantry). At the very least, it gives them a way of harassing the enemy while you circle them around for a good charge angle. Since they have the same stats as chariots, you don't lose anything by taking them anyway.

I have a lot of trouble starting as Khemri in general really, savage orcs tear through your skeletons so fast that you are often left with just your chariots, lord and warsphinx after like a minute or 2 of the fight, and your chariots just get swamped. Even if you get 8 out of 9 of them out you will lose one and hurt their leadership. That is my main issue with them, i really enjoy other 3 entity chariots

No doubt about it, the TK early game is a rough slog but I still really enjoy it. You need to use ambush stance a lot in the early game so you can isolate and eliminate the greenskin stacks one at a time, which makes them easier to manage. If they can actually see your stack on the map, they won't attack you without overwhelming numbers. By using ambush stance, you can normally bait them into pulling their army out of position so you can eliminate it, or best of all they'll blunder into your ambush.

I play incredibly defensively for the first 30 turns so I can get another stack of skeleton warriors up and drown the greenskins in bones. My early game comp is usually the starting units + the max number of archers and chariots. This is normally enough to keep me alive until I can get ushabti or tomb scorpions.

Once I get the second army going, it's usually all skeleton warriors and I don't care if I end up losing it, just so long as my irreplaceable constructs are alive. Your recruitment costs are free, so by using the local and global recruitment queues you can get a full stack of skeleton warriors up in five turns. With recruitment times like that, who cares about losing a whole stack of skeleton warriors if it means crippling your enemy?

[polerino]

Originally posted by TVMAN:

Originally posted by pole1468:

I did? The only part of it i felt i needed to reply to was the dismissive first statement.

It wasn't meant to be dismissive my dude. I was pointing out that, despite appearances, chariots aren't their true strength and that's all. Sorry if it came off as dismissive but that wasn't my intent.

I know you're supposed to keep chariots moving, you said about spamming movement orders and i already said that in the post. About the J shortcut i wasn't aware of that, but their turning circle is so poor

They're also moving when they're turning, which I've found makes it easier for them to disengage. I like to hit J and then immediate start spamming movement commands to get them to break off, and doing that seems to get them out of melee at a pretty quick rate.

that it feels like it would just be better off forcing them through rather than turning around, especially if you charge from behind so you are going through your own infantry on the way out.

Eh, The problem with that is now you're going through two units of mass instead of one. If you're hitting the enemy from the rear, it should be far easier for them to disengage back the way they came as opposed to forcing their way through two blocks of infantry. Either way you're going to be spamming movement orders to get them out of melee, so you might as well take the path of least resistance.

How do you personally find archer chariots? I reaslise they are the same stats as the regular ones, just with archers, but the archers don't really do a lot in my eyes. All they really do for me is make me feel a little better about it when i leave them out of combat for a little bit because i can't micro them perfectly.

You'd be surprised. The archers in the chariots are always firing as long as they're in range of a target, and all of those pot shot kills can quickly add up (especially against unarmored infantry). At the very least, it gives them a way of harassing the enemy while you circle them around for a good charge angle. Since they have the same stats as chariots, you don't lose anything by taking them anyway.

I have a lot of trouble starting as Khemri in general really, savage orcs tear through your skeletons so fast that you are often left with just your chariots, lord and warsphinx after like a minute or 2 of the fight, and your chariots just get swamped. Even if you get 8 out of 9 of them out you will lose one and hurt their leadership. That is my main issue with them, i really enjoy other 3 entity chariots

No doubt about it, the TK early game is a rough slog but I still really enjoy it. You need to use ambush stance a lot in the early game so you can isolate and eliminate the greenskin stacks one at a time, which makes them easier to manage. If they can actually see your stack on the map, they won't attack you without overwhelming numbers. By using ambush stance, you can normally bait them into pulling their army out of position so you can eliminate it, or best of all they'll blunder into your ambush.

I play incredibly defensively for the first 30 turns so I can get another stack of skeleton warriors up and drown the greenskins in bones. My early game comp is usually the starting units + the max number of archers and chariots. This is normally enough to keep me alive until I can get ushabti or tomb scorpions.

Once I get the second army going, it's usually all skeleton warriors and I don't care if I end up losing it, just so long as my irreplaceable constructs are alive. Your recruitment costs are free, so by using the local and global recruitment queues you can get a full stack of skeleton warriors up in five turns. With recruitment times like that, who cares about losing a whole stack of skeleton warriors if it means crippling your enemy?

The real kicker for me is that Khemri is marked as easy, atleast on the vortex map. Your own infantry doesn't really provide much resistance for your own stuff like chariots or cav, although i see your point about how if they are already getting flung around by the charge it should be easier to get them out. Another tactic i hear about but have never really tried is to charge them kinda diagonaly into the side, and then you can kinda keep them running, but i don't know how that would work with 9 chariots, you would be missing out on a lot of damage with them.

Maybe i'll use archer chariots more, i ofc use them in the tomb kings because they are just the same unit but with bows, but i hardly use the tiranoc chariot for instance, even if they have split arrows, i go for ithlimar so they are better at their main role

[polerino]

Originally posted by pole1468:

Originally posted by TVMAN:

It wasn't meant to be dismissive my dude. I was pointing out that, despite appearances, chariots aren't their true strength and that's all. Sorry if it came off as dismissive but that wasn't my intent.



They're also moving when they're turning, which I've found makes it easier for them to disengage. I like to hit J and then immediate start spamming movement commands to get them to break off, and doing that seems to get them out of melee at a pretty quick rate.



Eh, The problem with that is now you're going through two units of mass instead of one. If you're hitting the enemy from the rear, it should be far easier for them to disengage back the way they came as opposed to forcing their way through two blocks of infantry. Either way you're going to be spamming movement orders to get them out of melee, so you might as well take the path of least resistance.



You'd be surprised. The archers in the chariots are always firing as long as they're in range of a target, and all of those pot shot kills can quickly add up (especially against unarmored infantry). At the very least, it gives them a way of harassing the enemy while you circle them around for a good charge angle. Since they have the same stats as chariots, you don't lose anything by taking them anyway.



No doubt about it, the TK early game is a rough slog but I still really enjoy it. You need to use ambush stance a lot in the early game so you can isolate and eliminate the greenskin stacks one at a time, which makes them easier to manage. If they can actually see your stack on the map, they won't attack you without overwhelming numbers. By using ambush stance, you can normally bait them into pulling their army out of position so you can eliminate it, or best of all they'll blunder into your ambush.

I play incredibly defensively for the first 30 turns so I can get another stack of skeleton warriors up and drown the greenskins in bones. My early game comp is usually the starting units + the max number of archers and chariots. This is normally enough to keep me alive until I can get ushabti or tomb scorpions.

Once I get the second army going, it's usually all skeleton warriors and I don't care if I end up losing it, just so long as my irreplaceable constructs are alive. Your recruitment costs are free, so by using the local and global recruitment queues you can get a full stack of skeleton warriors up in five turns. With recruitment times like that, who cares about losing a whole stack of skeleton warriors if it means crippling your enemy?

The real kicker for me is that Khemri is marked as easy, atleast on the vortex map. Your own infantry doesn't really provide much resistance for your own stuff like chariots or cav, although i see your point about how if they are already getting flung around by the charge it should be easier to get them out. Another tactic i hear about but have never really tried is to charge them kinda diagonaly into the side, and then you can kinda keep them running, but i don't know how that would work with 9 chariots, you would be missing out on a lot of damage with them.

Maybe i'll use archer chariots more, i ofc use them in the tomb kings because they are just the same unit but with bows, but i hardly use the tiranoc chariot for instance, even if they have split arrows, i go for ithlimar so they are better at their main role

And thanks for the Khemri tips. I have played them really turtely before but i kinda felt like i was doing somehting wrong with them so i stopped, ill give that a try

[TVMAN]

Originally posted by pole1468:

The real kicker for me is that Khemri is marked as easy, atleast on the vortex map.

Well they're certainly easy for a TK faction, but yeah the whole TK campaign playstyle is a really slow, deliberate march out of the tomb. Their playstyle on the campaign fits their lore perfectly: It takes forever to crawl your way out of the tomb, but once you do, sigmar help anyone who stands in your way.

Your own infantry doesn't really provide much resistance for your own stuff like chariots or cav, although i see your point about how if they are already getting flung around by the charge it should be easier to get them out.

Well your own infantry will still provide some resistance. Enough resistance to annoyingly slow down your chariots, at least. I know some people insist in pushing their chariots through the enemy, but I still prefer to use them like shock cav and turn them around just so they don't get bogged down in the mass. Chariots really hate getting bogged down in melee, even more so than shock cav does, so I try to avoid it whenever possible.

Another tactic i hear about but have never really tried is to charge them kinda diagonaly into the side, and then you can kinda keep them running, but i don't know how that would work with 9 chariots, you would be missing out on a lot of damage with them.

That only really works if the enemy has a completely clear back field, otherwise you run the risk of running your chariots into the enemy reserve. Still, at that point it's all about positioning and battlefield conditions, and those are two things we can speculate about all day long if we wanted. I've had battles where I bounced my chariots back and forth between the rear of the enemy infantry and their ranged units, and my carts would end the battle with 150-200 kills. It just all depends on what the enemy brings and how you can best insert your chariots into the melee.

Originally posted by pole1468:

And thanks for the Khemri tips. I have played them really turtely before but i kinda felt like i was doing somehting wrong with them so i stopped, ill give that a try

Yeah, their weak starting lineup and poor growth really encourage defensive play in the beginning. Once you start recruiting constructs and get some of the growth techs researched, their playstyle changes from a defensive turtling faction that relies on ambushes and weak skeletons to an aggressive statue-powered steamroller laden with gold that can basically brute force their way through any engagement.

[Wyvern]

Personally I think Settra is actually incorrectly labeled difficulty wise compared to khalida or arkhan, both of them have an easier start than he does imho, because neither brettonians nor VC are anywhere near as well kitted out to crush squishy infantry(while killing ♥♥♥♥♥♥ infantry is literally the defining feature of savage orcs) Sure you can argue about later challenges(not really in arkhans case, but lizards in khalidas case are tougher) but by then youre usually teched up and have the higher end units you need for success.

[polerino]

Originally posted by TVMAN:

Originally posted by pole1468:

The real kicker for me is that Khemri is marked as easy, atleast on the vortex map.

Well they're certainly easy for a TK faction, but yeah the whole TK campaign playstyle is a really slow, deliberate march out of the tomb. Their playstyle on the campaign fits their lore perfectly: It takes forever to crawl your way out of the tomb, but once you do, sigmar help anyone who stands in your way.

Your own infantry doesn't really provide much resistance for your own stuff like chariots or cav, although i see your point about how if they are already getting flung around by the charge it should be easier to get them out.

Well your own infantry will still provide some resistance. Enough resistance to annoyingly slow down your chariots, at least. I know some people insist in pushing their chariots through the enemy, but I still prefer to use them like shock cav and turn them around just so they don't get bogged down in the mass. Chariots really hate getting bogged down in melee, even more so than shock cav does, so I try to avoid it whenever possible.

Another tactic i hear about but have never really tried is to charge them kinda diagonaly into the side, and then you can kinda keep them running, but i don't know how that would work with 9 chariots, you would be missing out on a lot of damage with them.

That only really works if the enemy has a completely clear back field, otherwise you run the risk of running your chariots into the enemy reserve. Still, at that point it's all about positioning and battlefield conditions, and those are two things we can speculate about all day long if we wanted. I've had battles where I bounced my chariots back and forth between the rear of the enemy infantry and their ranged units, and my carts would end the battle with 150-200 kills. It just all depends on what the enemy brings and how you can best insert your chariots into the melee.

Originally posted by pole1468:

And thanks for the Khemri tips. I have played them really turtely before but i kinda felt like i was doing somehting wrong with them so i stopped, ill give that a try

Yeah, their weak starting lineup and poor growth really encourage defensive play in the beginning. Once you start recruiting constructs and get some of the growth techs researched, their playstyle changes from a defensive turtling faction that relies on ambushes and weak skeletons to an aggressive statue-powered steamroller laden with gold that can basically brute force their way through any engagement.

I actually find Lybaras to be a lot easier tbh, the lizardmen don't contest the rest of the province and they are pretty easy to take out, especially if you let teclis do some heavy lifting, then you have teclis covering your left flank, the dwarfs arent too hard to make allies with and then you just have the province to your right. Skrolk is a bit of a pain but it's a lot easier to get the ball rolling with Lybaras.

[JODEGAFUN]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Personally I think Settra is actually incorrectly labeled difficulty wise compared to khalida or arkhan, both of them have an easier start than he does imho, because neither brettonians nor VC are anywhere near as well kitted out to crush squishy infantry(while killing ♥♥♥♥♥♥ infantry is literally the defining feature of savage orcs) Sure you can argue about later challenges(not really in arkhans case, but lizards in khalidas case are tougher) but by then youre usually teched up and have the higher end units you need for success.

The trick to make Kalidas start easy (ME) is take lamia after turn 3, if you do not take it it will be a bad time.
If the vamp upgrade his garrison you have no fun.
The lizard are easy if you wait for Grog Kar that he settle in the ruin south of you. Wait until he settled it and kick him out when he is weaken.

[Jaypinguin]

I really like the Tomb King chariots. The animations (How the rider swings that monstrous knife upwards through enemies backlines), the unit appearance, and the good kills it can get. A good unit for early games.