How do you make Alarielle's army in campaign?

[polerino]

Do you go full archers with a sea guard front line and sisters or do you go for forest spirits with a tree kin front line (but still sisters ofc). Either way im thinking of going for 2 handmaidens, one with entangle and the other with hawkish precision.

I'm struggling to decide, there are a multitude of buffs for sea guard both in the tech tree and red skills and the only buffs for forest spirits are under Alarielle's "greedy" me only skill path. Also Hawkish Precision makes sea guard even more tempting.

On the other hand forest spirits are cool! Tree kin are like a solid wall of bark and great for healing up. They also look freaky but in a cool way

[dyne2alex]

I like to put some forest stuff in her army. No dryads tho, and only up to 3 though, since in siege battles, there's usually only 1-3 gates. For other armies, I'd do a few seaguard + sisters, but for alar, I like going full sisters. Other than that, I guess phoenix guard and a few dragon princes.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by sad frog:

Do you go full archers with a sea guard front line and sisters or do you go for forest spirits with a tree kin front line (but still sisters ofc). Either way im thinking of going for 2 handmaidens, one with entangle and the other with hawkish precision.

I'm struggling to decide, there are a multitude of buffs for sea guard both in the tech tree and red skills and the only buffs for forest spirits are under Alarielle's "greedy" me only skill path. Also Hawkish Precision makes sea guard even more tempting.

On the other hand forest spirits are cool! Tree kin are like a solid wall of bark and great for healing up. They also look freaky but in a cool way

Tree units are basically worthless in the HE roster, youre much better off just bringing a bunch of shooting. If you need siege attacker, get a bolt thrower or eventually a dragon.

[Roach]

naaaa....
the treeunits arent too bad once you get the buffs from her tree for them.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by Roach:

naaaa....
the treeunits arent too bad once you get the buffs from her tree for them.

Except they serve no purpose. Dryads are ok for an offense minded roster in early game, but past turn 30? It isnt even close. Spears/LSG/Phoenix Guard and even dragons are just far better than treeking/treemen for basically the same purposes, and dryads lose out to white lions for offensive melee by tier 3(tbh ellyrian reavers are better in most cases too for early game aggression, except in sieges)

Id never discourage someone from playing tree units if they just want to for fun/theme, do whatever floats your goat, but from an objective efficiency/usefulness standard, they really arent worth it.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Originally posted by Roach:

naaaa....
the treeunits arent too bad once you get the buffs from her tree for them.

Except they serve no purpose. Dryads are ok for an offense minded roster in early game, but past turn 30? It isnt even close. Spears/LSG/Phoenix Guard and even dragons are just far better than treeking/treemen for basically the same purposes, and dryads lose out to white lions for offensive melee by tier 3(tbh ellyrian reavers are better in most cases too for early game aggression, except in sieges)

Id never discourage someone from playing tree units if they just want to for fun/theme, do whatever floats your goat, but from an objective efficiency/usefulness standard, they really arent worth it.

I think they are. Pheonix guard are probably the best line, but you get treekin before pheonix guard. They hold the line longer. In one battle, fought 2 mid to high tier stacks off from the dark elves which was like a 25 percent auto resolve cause it was on a chokepoint, and they just couldn't make it past treekin with heals and all died to archers.

They really work well because Allarielle can spam healing on them so much that they just never lose a model. It doesn't really work that way on sea guard or anything else you get except for dragons, but dragons aren't a great line unit. Overall, I think they're actually a pretty good option in Allarielle's army. Without a life mage, they don't really serve any purpose though, and even then only allarielle can spam the spell constantly cause she gets so much magic so you might run out if youre using a standard life mage.

Also even in comparison to pheonix guard, treekin cost a lot less. And you don't really need the damage pheonix guard would bring, your damage is the sisters of averlon. And dragons don't serve the same purpose (at least as treekin), they're a single entity so enemies can just walk past them. Not to mention they don't survive significantly longer than treekin for a signficantly higher cost, they just kill way more.

Outside Allarielle's army, yeah I'd agree theres no reason to use treekin or treemen, especially treemen which I don't think theres a reason for either way.

[Wyvern]

The thing is, LSG can lay down fire and gets a plethora of tech+skill buffs, allarielle has her tree buffs and thats it. Even if you lose a few guys, it doesnt really matter, the extra damage LSG will dish out more than compensates. I think theres a vast under-estimation of how much a unit doing actual damage can mean especially if youre in a situation where an enemy can viably swamp you.

In the case of a chokepoint its basically an optimal HE(or really, any faction with ok ranged) situation, you could have had spearmen or maybe even dryads holding the line and while they might have taken more losses, you would have probably won decisively regardless. In an open field battle, those extra volleys can mean a lot.

Also, single models are actually really good at defending vs AI, because they are basically guaranteed to snare at least a unit or two, and dont present a target for friendly fire. Its a great way to get max value out of any shooting, especially arty or explosives/flamers, but even normal bows.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

The thing is, LSG can lay down fire and gets a plethora of tech+skill buffs, allarielle has her tree buffs and thats it. Even if you lose a few guys, it doesnt really matter, the extra damage LSG will dish out more than compensates. I think theres a vast under-estimation of how much a unit doing actual damage can mean.

In the case of a chokepoint its basically an optimal HE(or really, any faction with ok ranged) situation, you could have had spearmen or maybe even dryads holding the line and while they might have taken more losses, you would have probably won decisively regardless. In an open field battle, those extra volleys can mean a lot.

Also, single models are actually really good at defending vs AI, because they are basically guaranteed to snare at least a unit or two, and dont present a target for friendly fire. Its a great way to get max value out of any shooting, especially arty or explosives/flamers, but even normal bows.

They would have died if it wasn't treekin, I think I hit the regen cap on them. Lothern sea guard definitely work well too, but pretty shortly after they start shooting something is going to have reached your line. In melee combat they don't really do any more damage than treekin. So to me, you just need exactly enough treekin to cover your front line, maybe 2 sea guards on the flanks in case some cavalry flank or something (although sisters are decent melee combatants so its not necessary), and then the rest sisters.

Plus when you fight actually threatening stacks, its usually armored enemies, which sea guards don't do a ton of damage to, and treekin will never go down to those low tier units. I think the threat really is when you get a huge spam of units where you can't prevent them from reaching your front line, and then if you have lothern sea guard they're just stuck in melee combat the whole time. Where they won't get many more kills than treekin do. If you could keep them from getting to your front line with the extra damage lothern sea guard provide, then they didn't break through treekin.

[Aenarion]

Originally posted by sad frog:

Do you go full archers with a sea guard front line and sisters or do you go for forest spirits with a tree kin front line (but still sisters ofc).

My current army is:

Alarielle
Handmaiden
10 sisters
4 phoenix guard
4 bolt throwers

Seaguard would be a reasonable alternative to PG in early-mid game, or star dragons in late game. Basically you just need something to fight cavalry and monsters, which are the sisters' main weak point.

I wouldn't use tree kin because the whole point of your melee component is to catch cavalry and monsters, and your sisters cannot shoot them as well with tall, flammable treekin in the way. Tree kin damage output is also poor compared to alternatives.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by rymeintrinseca:

Originally posted by sad frog:

Do you go full archers with a sea guard front line and sisters or do you go for forest spirits with a tree kin front line (but still sisters ofc).

My current army is:

Alarielle
Handmaiden
10 sisters
4 phoenix guard
4 bolt throwers

Seaguard would be a reasonable alternative to PG in early-mid game, or star dragons in late game. Basically you just need something to fight cavalry and monsters, which are the sisters' main weak point.

I wouldn't use tree kin because the whole point of your melee component is to catch cavalry and monsters, and your sisters cannot shoot them as well with tall, flammable treekin in the way. Tree kin damage output is also poor compared to alternatives.

Well their weakness is cavalry because cavalry are fast, so its easy for them to flank. The ai just keeps them in melee combat with stuff like treekin, and at that point they die faster than infantry cause they're larger targets. Monsters especially I think archers are a counter to, not the other way around. I usually kill all the monsters in the enemy army before their army gets close with ranged armies.

I've found treekin don't really get in the way much more. They're large yeah, but they also have a small number of models. Its pretty easy to shoot around them usually if you just run them in at a slight angle. Not to mention they work slightly better to intercept cavalry usually, at least compared to sea guard.

I don't think treekin are definitively a better option or anything, but I think they're as good as sea guard for their cost because they synergize so well with Allarielle's healing. I wouldn't take them in anyone's army but hers, unless its just cause I think they're cooler. I think its mostly a flavor thing either way, you can get a stack effective enough to take out anything short of 2 or more doomstacks either way (at least I presume you can with pheonix guard, I had treekin in my game).

Also I think dragons are super good in her army when you get tier 4. I mean you're playing the whole get the ai to clump up on your defensive units game, you can easily get 100 kills on dragon breath in that situation. Then just charge them in, and they won't go down cause allarielle gives so much healing and defensive stats.

[Sn3z]

Forest spirits impact probably amounts to you being able to skip the Grove building. I would use a normal spearmen frontline with dryads though, backed up by some LSG they would protect my archers.

Dryads could be replaced by swordmasters. You probably have try to rush this building or get a confederation just in case, they may fall off too quick though, I wouldn't be so sold on these units. You could reduce some of these in your army also for Treekin.

Treekin can help out your cavalry on the flanks defintely a worthwhile unit for HE.

Treeman: I think I would replace all my Treekin for one or two, they would be more suited to helping your centre. Dragons could then be used with your cavalry.

Sisters of averlorn replace your standard archers. LSG will always be needed to protect then from getting flanked.

HE could become very powerful in a later game with this army but I have yet to try it out.

[Fey Dragonette]

Doesn't Hawkish Precision as a HE lord/hero trait only affect the lord/hero?

[Aenarion]

Originally posted by Boneripper:

Originally posted by rymeintrinseca:

My current army is:

Alarielle
Handmaiden
10 sisters
4 phoenix guard
4 bolt throwers

Seaguard would be a reasonable alternative to PG in early-mid game, or star dragons in late game. Basically you just need something to fight cavalry and monsters, which are the sisters' main weak point.

I wouldn't use tree kin because the whole point of your melee component is to catch cavalry and monsters, and your sisters cannot shoot them as well with tall, flammable treekin in the way. Tree kin damage output is also poor compared to alternatives.

Well their weakness is cavalry because cavalry are fast, so its easy for them to flank. The ai just keeps them in melee combat with stuff like treekin, and at that point they die faster than infantry cause they're larger targets. Monsters especially I think archers are a counter to, not the other way around. I usually kill all the monsters in the enemy army before their army gets close with ranged armies.

I've found treekin don't really get in the way much more. They're large yeah, but they also have a small number of models. Its pretty easy to shoot around them usually if you just run them in at a slight angle. Not to mention they work slightly better to intercept cavalry usually, at least compared to sea guard.

I don't think treekin are definitively a better option or anything, but I think they're as good as sea guard for their cost because they synergize so well with Allarielle's healing. I wouldn't take them in anyone's army but hers, unless its just cause I think they're cooler. I think its mostly a flavor thing either way, you can get a stack effective enough to take out anything short of 2 or more doomstacks either way (at least I presume you can with pheonix guard, I had treekin in my game).

Also I think dragons are super good in her army when you get tier 4. I mean you're playing the whole get the ai to clump up on your defensive units game, you can easily get 100 kills on dragon breath in that situation. Then just charge them in, and they won't go down cause allarielle gives so much healing and defensive stats.

It's a reasonable point about the healing, but not enough to overcome the inherent weaknesses of treekin IMO. They will still lose badly against most things you encounter in late game. If you're having to constantly heal them you're taking your mage away from other casts. I'm sure you can still beat the braindead AI but that doesn't mean it's a good build compared to say PG, which will match black guard or chosen without outside help.

Were I going to take treekin it would actually be with someone other than Alarielle because of the negative synergy between treekin and sisters (susceptibility to magical fire). I take a healer with every HE army so there's no particular reason to take them with Alarielle. She pretty much has to choose to buff treekin or sisters and the sisters tree is too good to turn down IMO.

Treemen are a bit more of an interesting option that I admit I haven't played with yet (as HE).

[polerino]

Originally posted by Radiant:

Doesn't Hawkish Precision as a HE lord/hero trait only affect the lord/hero?

It's a skill your handmaidens can take that gives hawkish precision to almost all ranged units in their army

Although funnily enough she doesn't give them to sisters of averlorn acording to the ability description

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by rymeintrinseca:

Originally posted by Boneripper:

Well their weakness is cavalry because cavalry are fast, so its easy for them to flank. The ai just keeps them in melee combat with stuff like treekin, and at that point they die faster than infantry cause they're larger targets. Monsters especially I think archers are a counter to, not the other way around. I usually kill all the monsters in the enemy army before their army gets close with ranged armies.

I've found treekin don't really get in the way much more. They're large yeah, but they also have a small number of models. Its pretty easy to shoot around them usually if you just run them in at a slight angle. Not to mention they work slightly better to intercept cavalry usually, at least compared to sea guard.

I don't think treekin are definitively a better option or anything, but I think they're as good as sea guard for their cost because they synergize so well with Allarielle's healing. I wouldn't take them in anyone's army but hers, unless its just cause I think they're cooler. I think its mostly a flavor thing either way, you can get a stack effective enough to take out anything short of 2 or more doomstacks either way (at least I presume you can with pheonix guard, I had treekin in my game).

Also I think dragons are super good in her army when you get tier 4. I mean you're playing the whole get the ai to clump up on your defensive units game, you can easily get 100 kills on dragon breath in that situation. Then just charge them in, and they won't go down cause allarielle gives so much healing and defensive stats.

It's a reasonable point about the healing, but not enough to overcome the inherent weaknesses of treekin IMO. They will still lose badly against most things you encounter in late game. If you're having to constantly heal them you're taking your mage away from other casts. I'm sure you can still beat the braindead AI but that doesn't mean it's a good build compared to say PG, which will match black guard or chosen without outside help.

Were I going to take treekin it would actually be with someone other than Alarielle because of the negative synergy between treekin and sisters (susceptibility to magical fire). I take a healer with every HE army so there's no particular reason to take them with Alarielle. She pretty much has to choose to buff treekin or sisters and the sisters tree is too good to turn down IMO.

Treemen are a bit more of an interesting option that I admit I haven't played with yet (as HE).

Allarielle has like infinite heals though which is why I say her. Plus you don't take treekin to win any fight, you take them so they don't die. They don't need to beat black guard if theres 100 arrows going into them.

And I am of course referring specifically to campaign. I don't feel they have a purpose in multiplayer where your opponent won't get 3 stacks stuck on treekin, and HE already have good line units. Maybe if you expect youe opponent to spam something like har ganetg executioners or plague monks, where they'd make a better like cause they're monsters, but even then there are better options.

Basically I think they're good because you can abuse the braindead ai with them. Ai doesn't flank well, and treekin will hold the longest with heals, so you can get like 5 treekin, a couple dragons, and mass sisters, and then the ai just clumps up, dragon breath kills 100 units each cast, allarielle kills 200 with dwellers, and sisters shoot over the treekin or around from the flanks the ai ignores and you kill everything else. If the ai weren't dumb enough to let you do this, I'd probably go phoenix guard.

Its kind ofnlike the lothern sea guard frontline with archef backline army. It's really not an amazing army, ai just doesn't know how to deal with it.

[Problem Solver]

I use 4 sisters. 5 phoenix guards, 4 swordmasters 2 dragon princes and 4 dragons (star)