Why Skaven not a part of Beastmen in the Lore?

[viranto]

Question in the Title O:

[Red Dragon]

Because they have different background storys. Afaik Beastmen are (at least partly) mutated humans, while skaven are rats that came in contact with warpstone (pure chaos) and grew both in size and intelligence. They are far more cunning than beastmen and serve a different god, have different plans ...

[viranto]

And like them each other? Because i read the book "konrad saga" from warhammer novel and on the first sites, beastman and skaven fight together.
But yes, they have complete her own lore and gods. But they mutated beasts.

[Zoie Shales]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von viranto:

And like them each other? Because i read the book "konrad saga" from warhammer novel and on the first sites, beastman and skaven fight together.
But yes, they have complete her own lore and gods. But they mutated beasts.

Skaven don't normally even trust other Skaven, doubt they would work together on their own without Beastmen giving the Skaven a insentive like Warpstone or food.
Beastmen consider all non-beastmen to be either food or temporary allies of opportunity. Skaven would fall into either category, depending on circumstances, and the Beastmen hate any form of civilization.
The Skaven do not share the same goals as beastmen though, and would not want to see beastmen (or Chaos generally) ultimately victorious.

[victorlopezdelosmozogomez]

It is simple, because they're different races: in the lore the Beastmen come from the mutation of humans and animals due to the chaos corruption. The Skaven, however, come from rats. The story is the next: A long time ago, in the lands of Tilea there was a city (actually Plagaskaven in spanish, I don't know the name in english) where humans and dwarves live together, ones in the surface the other underground. They were so wealthy and prosperous that started to build a tower to thanks the gods for their luck... but it wasn't never enough so one day a mysterious guy went to the city and said the masters of it that he woulds finish the tower in one night and in exchange he wanted to be able to put his own offering to the gods. So, the humans agreed and the next day they watched the tower finished with a huge bell on the top. They were happy so went inside the temple... and the bell toll 13 times... and the darkness came... after some months of rain and calamities and a lot of rats coming from the Karak of the dwarves, the city and all the people and dwarves insides died and disappeared. This is the story which appears in the seventh edition army book.

[Cacomistle]

Its kind of like how elves and humans and dwarves are all different factions. Really a human with some genetic variance could end up looking a lot like an elf or dwarf in reality. Although I guess they wouldn't live for hundreds of years.

Skaven and beastmen are realistically more different than humans and elves. Its fantasy, so the real answer is that its because games workshop decided rat people would be interesting as their own faction rather than just being some subgroup of beastmen. I'm sure we can both think of reasons why that might be the case, but I don't know why CA specifically thought that.

[victorlopezdelosmozogomez]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boneripper:

Its kind of like how elves and humans and dwarves are all different factions. Really a human with some genetic variance could end up looking a lot like an elf or dwarf in reality. Although I guess they wouldn't live for hundreds of years.

Skaven and beastmen are realistically more different than humans and elves. Its fantasy, so the real answer is that its because games workshop decided rat people would be interesting as their own faction rather than just being some subgroup of beastmen. I'm sure we can both think of reasons why that might be the case, but I don't know why CA specifically thought that.

You're mixing things... Games workshop is who created the lore and in the lore they explain everything. The reason is given upon your comment. I'm not speculating, I'm giving a reason who is written in the stories of Warhammer. For example, in the times of the first chaos invansion the actual deserts of chaos were wealthy kingdoms of dwarves and elves and humans... the elves and the dwarves are stronger resisting the chaos corruption and the humans don't... that's why there are just human mutants. The beastmen were a mix of animals and humans who started to procreate between them and that's how the race started. The origins of Skaven is the story I've given.... I've missed that with the bell the stranger man builts, Morrslieb started to shine so hard that it mutated the rats

[Cacomistle]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von victorlopezdelosmozogomez:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Boneripper:

Its kind of like how elves and humans and dwarves are all different factions. Really a human with some genetic variance could end up looking a lot like an elf or dwarf in reality. Although I guess they wouldn't live for hundreds of years.

Skaven and beastmen are realistically more different than humans and elves. Its fantasy, so the real answer is that its because games workshop decided rat people would be interesting as their own faction rather than just being some subgroup of beastmen. I'm sure we can both think of reasons why that might be the case, but I don't know why CA specifically thought that.

You're mixing things... Games workshop is who created the lore and in the lore they explain everything. The reason is given upon your comment. I'm not speculating, I'm giving a reason who is written in the stories of Warhammer. For example, in the times of the first chaos invansion the actual deserts of chaos were wealthy kingdoms of dwarves and elves and humans... the elves and the dwarves are stronger resisting the chaos corruption and the humans don't... that's why there are just human mutants. The beastmen were a mix of animals and humans who started to procreate between them and that's how the race started. The origins of Skaven is the story I've given.... I've missed that with the bell the stranger man builts, Morrslieb started to shine so hard that it mutated the rats

Yeah I kind of was answering a different question than the lore one. Beastmen contain mutated humans and animals though, skaven would technically fit into that if they didn't have their own lore instead.

Actual lore reason you posted is definitely more interesting than my post. Thanks for the info cause I didn't know that stuff.

[Harbaugh]

Chaos is chaotic, and the servants of the ruinous powers don't necessarily like or cooperate with one and other. Beastmen are feral, savage monstrosities of the forests of the old world, while the Skaven are the warpstone corrupted offspring of the Horned Rat. Both groups might be in the service of Chaos, but they worship different gods and have different goals.

Beastmen Chaotic Evil and want to burn the world down and bathe in blood.
Skaven Lawful Evil and want to dominate the world and make all the other races their slaves.

[Ape-tier Buffoonery]

Beastmen came about right when chaos broke through the warpgates in the north and south pole.

Skaven are relatively a newer species. Old enough to be around when Nehekhara was still a major power but probably weren't around when High Elves and Dwarves had their golden ages.

They also worship their separate gods, beastmen worship the big 4 but Skaven having their own god.

[Zoie Shales]

Scince Skaven origins are being talked about, the most accepted version is what was being mentioned above, it's a old Tilean tale called the "Doom of Kavzar" https://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Skaven

[Dominic]

Nagash waged war with a vast Skaven Empire before he destroyed Nehekaria, I want to say cripple peak? So the fallen human city doesnt really fit, and I believe was replaced with a fallen Skaven city.

Skaven are chaosy, but so are choas warriors, chaos mauraders, chaos dwarfs and chaos elves, none of whm get on, or share the Daemons goal of destroying the world.

[RED /(Weber)\]

Because Beastmen like suckin' diq.

[Hyen《A》 ♧]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von RED Floyd /(Weber)\:

Because Beastmen like suckin' diq.

Sensing some aggresiveness there. They razed your town or something?

[Muerte]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von RED Floyd /(Weber)\:

Because Beastmen like suckin' diq.

Well that derailed quickly....

[EthanT]

Beastmen, Chaos,. and Skaven all team up in the End Times to destroy the world, even though they're all seperate factions. The Beast Men are simple minded and will fight with anyone if it means more bloodshed, Chaos wants to (and succeeds) to nuke the world, Skaven want to help Archaeon then betray him last second to rule over the ashes.