Are vargheists op lol?

[Eldrin]

I have like 10 of them in my army, 1 blood knights and then just random meatshields, graveguards, skeletons and crypt gouls.

I went up against an orc army that had a full stack of 20 plus another 11 from a side army. i selected all my stuff and gave them the forward attack order. I went to the bathroom with out realizing i did not pause the game. I came back form the bathroom and literally the entire greenskin army was routing.

Been taking care of sieges with nothing but the 10 wargheists too, dont even bother sending my other guys in the army in there because they destroy all.

[Wh♂♂par]

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

What is the point? You say, they're OP, if case #1 + case #2 + case #3 come true.

Yes, they're good, IF you HEAL THEM, IF you USE THEM CORRECTLY and IF you SUPPORT THEM.

there really isnt case one or case 2, u have ALL of that from the second u start the game. I dont know about the other counts but if ur vlad then u can recruit them from the first turn and all vampire lords have blood magic to heal them.

Which still makes case #1 and case 2# be true...

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

there really isnt case one or case 2, u have ALL of that from the second u start the game. I dont know about the other counts but if ur vlad then u can recruit them from the first turn and all vampire lords have blood magic to heal them.

Which still makes case #1 and case 2# be true...

that everyone always have no matter what they do, i dont get your point

[Wh♂♂par]

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

Which still makes case #1 and case 2# be true...

that everyone always have no matter what they do, i dont get your point

They're not OP.

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

that everyone always have no matter what they do, i dont get your point

They're not OP.

how does that not make them op?

[Wh♂♂par]

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

They're not OP.

how does that not make them op?

I explained it already.

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

how does that not make them op?

I explained it already.

no you didnt u brought some cases talking like you need this or that for them to be op, but everyone have all of that from turn 1

[ArchAnge1LT]

Vargheist are very good dps, but no armor piercing. So if they only dish damage, they are great against non-heavily armored but the moment they get it back, they just melt.

[Green]

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

I explained it already.

no you didnt u brought some cases talking like you need this or that for them to be op, but everyone have all of that from turn 1

- low armor
- low melee defense and pulling out flyers isn't always easy against a tight formation and you don't get to always pull them out when you want to
- low AP
- flyers, due to some sort of weird animation mechanic, struggle to catch up and tie up units like Pistoliers in spite of having higher speed. So Vargheists can be kited by Pistoliers or similar (which is sort of a hard counter to them).

all of these mean that if by accident you don't melt the blob where you land them, they are gonna suffer heavy losses. And yea, you can cast IoN on them, but you could also cast IoN on a better target like the Blood Knights. Winds of magic always bear an opportunity cost anyway. It's like saying: "oh, but I can cast Regrowth on my Star Dragon so it's OP!". Yea, but if you cast Regrowth on the Star Dragon, a good opponent will cast FoB on your Dragon Princes, or you will be unable to cast Flock on a blob of Skaven, or similar.

The only reason "they're OP" in campaign is because the AI is dumb.

Add me on Steam if you want you can go VC I go any faction you choose other than Empire because I sort of dislike playing it and you promise me to field at least 2 units of Vargheists and you can choose 2 units I will field. I won't even counterpick too much for Vargheists and you will see that they suck.

[Wh♂♂par]

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

I explained it already.

no you didnt u brought some cases talking like you need this or that for them to be op, but everyone have all of that from turn 1

I'm sorry, if you didn't understand, I will try to reiterate. They're not OP.

[Baragon-Kun]

Vargheists op? Pfffffff! Good joke...

[ShoopDaBoofs]

Has nobody mentioned that he was fighting against orks, which have notoriously low leadership and are easily broken? And not to mention they have no anti-large units besides goblin spearmen, which also have horrible leadership anyway.. Try that ♥♥♥♥ against any other faction besides maybe dwarfs (But they'd likely gun you down quick enough anyway) and you'll eat ♥♥♥♥.

[Kushko]

Pretty much all VC (or any faction for that matter) mid to high tier units are better than vargheist. It's nice that the OP is enjoying using them but lets not kid ourselves, vargheist are not only not OP but they are delicate flowers and will die if you even look at them funny. If you want to cycle charge use blood knights, if you want to harass back lines use bats.

The only time i ever use them in SP is when playing Vladdy daddys wife, because she has major upkeep reduction and armor buffs for them. And i'm not even sure they're worth having with all that.

[Xhal]

Try your vargheist with no armor against elves with a bajillion archers or skaven with a ton of missiles. See how that goes.

[Rhudda]

Originally posted by ShoopDaBoofs:

And not to mention they have no anti-large units besides goblin spearmen, which also have horrible leadership anyway..

Just because I'm a pedant: Goblin spearmen have neither anti-large damage nor charge defence of any kind.

[Wh♂♂par]

Originally posted by Hagrid in a Hobbit Hole:

Originally posted by ShoopDaBoofs:

And not to mention they have no anti-large units besides goblin spearmen, which also have horrible leadership anyway..

Just because I'm a pedant: Goblin spearmen have neither anti-large damage nor charge defence of any kind.

Yup, only Anti-Large is BIG 'UNZ. Even a BIG 'UN on a chair would still be Anti-Large