Are vargheists op lol?

[Eldrin]

I have like 10 of them in my army, 1 blood knights and then just random meatshields, graveguards, skeletons and crypt gouls.

I went up against an orc army that had a full stack of 20 plus another 11 from a side army. i selected all my stuff and gave them the forward attack order. I went to the bathroom with out realizing i did not pause the game. I came back form the bathroom and literally the entire greenskin army was routing.

Been taking care of sieges with nothing but the 10 wargheists too, dont even bother sending my other guys in the army in there because they destroy all.

[The Notorious GSB]

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here.

'I have 10 dragon ogre shaggoths and keep beating the AI with them...'

The real story here: strong units are strong and having lots of them is also strong.

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by The Notorious GSB:

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here.

'I have 10 dragon ogre shaggoths and keep beating the AI with them...'

The real story here: strong units are strong and having lots of them is also strong.

but these arent dragon level creatures.... their upkeep is 250
dragons go for 450-700 upkeep.
bloodknights go for 400 upkeep

[DarkFenix]

Vargheists are crap, they have neither armour nor defence, even the most basic enemy unit will inflict a lot of damage if you're not careful. So if 10 vargheists can rout one and a half enemy stacks while you're afk (particularly with the idiotic flying unit AI that tends to hover around doing nothing), I recommend setting the difficulty level to something higher than easy.

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Vargheists are crap, they have neither armour nor defence, even the most basic enemy unit will inflict a lot of damage if you're not careful. So if 10 vargheists can rout one and a half enemy stacks while you're afk (particularly with the idiotic flying unit AI that tends to hover around doing nothing), I recommend setting the difficulty level to something higher than easy.

they have speed and realllly high dps and my difficulty is very hard, somehow i doubt the game is balanced for legendary

ranged untis dont mean much when they can make 1 volley if their lucky and they are already in their face ripping them to shreds.

[𝒦ℒℬ]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Vargheists are crap, they have neither armour nor defence, even the most basic enemy unit will inflict a lot of damage if you're not careful. So if 10 vargheists can rout one and a half enemy stacks while you're afk (particularly with the idiotic flying unit AI that tends to hover around doing nothing), I recommend setting the difficulty level to something higher than easy.

[Green]

OP has discovered cycle charging with units that have high mass and high charge bonus, good job OP

Vargheists are good in campaign because you can almost always force the enemy anti-large to engage another unit and thus not brace against Vargheists but generally they are crap in MP

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by baby killa:

OP has discovered cycle charging with units that have high mass and high charge bonus, good job OP

and flying, and speed, and really high damage and if they do get damage u just heal/ressurect them up.

[Green]

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

Originally posted by baby killa:

OP has discovered cycle charging with units that have high mass and high charge bonus, good job OP

and flying, and speed, and really high damage and if they do get damage u just heal/ressurect them up.

I agree they're not a bad unit in SP, but let's not overhype their value. They still suck tons in prolonged combat and should you choose a bad engagement or leave them too long in melee not only do they take massive damage due to low armor AND MD, but they also start crumbling due to very average leadership.

In siege battles they shine though. In normal battles they won't be able to catch up with the fastest skirmishers anyway which means that you either need to use Bats or just take the skirmisher fire and field a heavier army (more BK, more Terrorgheists)

Also, another bad thing is that for a monstrous infantry/flying unit/whatever they have really low AP which makes them hard to use against factions that like to bring a lot of armored units (Dwarves, but also HE).

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by baby killa:

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

and flying, and speed, and really high damage and if they do get damage u just heal/ressurect them up.

I agree they're not a bad unit in SP, but let's not overhype their value. They still suck tons in prolonged combat and should you choose a bad engagement or leave them too long in melee not only do they take massive damage due to low armor AND MD, but they also start crumbling due to very average leadership.

In siege battles they shine though. In normal battles they won't be able to catch up with the fastest skirmishers anyway which means that you either need to use Bats or just take the skirmisher fire and field a heavier army (more BK, more Terrorgheists)

if their melee is a bad matchup then just send in your meatshields and flank them, it is sooo easy to flank with flying.

[Wh♂♂par]

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

Originally posted by baby killa:

I agree they're not a bad unit in SP, but let's not overhype their value. They still suck tons in prolonged combat and should you choose a bad engagement or leave them too long in melee not only do they take massive damage due to low armor AND MD, but they also start crumbling due to very average leadership.

In siege battles they shine though. In normal battles they won't be able to catch up with the fastest skirmishers anyway which means that you either need to use Bats or just take the skirmisher fire and field a heavier army (more BK, more Terrorgheists)

if their melee is a bad matchup then just send in your meatshields and flank them, it is sooo easy to flank with flying.

What is the point? You say, they're OP, if case #1 + case #2 + case #3 come true.

Yes, they're good, IF you HEAL THEM, IF you USE THEM CORRECTLY and IF you SUPPORT THEM.

[Green]

if you want an example of an OP unit (in campaign and to an extent in MP), check out the Star Dragon of the Bow Ushabti or the Waywatchers. Those are all much more flexible units that are good in almost every situation

[GeNKi]

Originally posted by The Notorious GSB:

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here.

'I have 10 dragon ogre shaggoths and keep beating the AI with them...'

The real story here: strong units are strong and having lots of them is also strong.

but vargheists aren't a T5 unit

[GeNKi]

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

Originally posted by baby killa:

I agree they're not a bad unit in SP, but let's not overhype their value. They still suck tons in prolonged combat and should you choose a bad engagement or leave them too long in melee not only do they take massive damage due to low armor AND MD, but they also start crumbling due to very average leadership.

In siege battles they shine though. In normal battles they won't be able to catch up with the fastest skirmishers anyway which means that you either need to use Bats or just take the skirmisher fire and field a heavier army (more BK, more Terrorgheists)

if their melee is a bad matchup then just send in your meatshields and flank them, it is sooo easy to flank with flying.

Does such army composition work against top tier Wood Elf army too?

Not sure about that, while 10 units can swarm archers pretty well, Ents will eat your infatry alive, in the meantime..

[Green]

Originally posted by GeNKi:

Originally posted by The Notorious GSB:

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here.

'I have 10 dragon ogre shaggoths and keep beating the AI with them...'

The real story here: strong units are strong and having lots of them is also strong.

but vargheists aren't a T5 unit

I've had matchups where my Vargheists landed into an enemy formation and I was expecting them to do massive damage, only for them to do 500-600 impact damage and get stuck there afterwards and it was difficult to pull them out before 5-6 entities died. Depends on how you tie the enemy formation, depends on their armor and MD values, depends if they're braced or not... All in all, not as versatile a unit as you'd think and in my opinion they're average for tier 3 (not bad, not good). Give me another unit, I can tell you how to make it shine in campaign under the right circumstances.

Originally posted by GeNKi:

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

if their melee is a bad matchup then just send in your meatshields and flank them, it is sooo easy to flank with flying.

Does such army composition work against top tier Wood Elf army too?

Not sure about that, while 10 units can swarm archers pretty well, Ents will eat your infatry alive, in the meantime..

Not sure what "Ents" you're referring to, but Treekin have very low MA and are meant mostly for tarpitting the frontline for the WE. I'm not sure how strong a Treeman is since I barely use it.

[Eldrin]

Originally posted by Wh♂♂par:

Originally posted by SwiftXShadow:

if their melee is a bad matchup then just send in your meatshields and flank them, it is sooo easy to flank with flying.

What is the point? You say, they're OP, if case #1 + case #2 + case #3 come true.

Yes, they're good, IF you HEAL THEM, IF you USE THEM CORRECTLY and IF you SUPPORT THEM.

there really isnt case one or case 2, u have ALL of that from the second u start the game. I dont know about the other counts but if ur vlad then u can recruit them from the first turn and all vampire lords have blood magic to heal them.