Best way to use monsters?

[Ruinae Retroque Rursus]

Okay okay, yes, the idea of monsters is just to plough them into the enemy lines and watch as they much not-good-against-large ineffective-against-armor infantry.

But beyond that, is there anything more complex?

In infantry battles, throwing ten units of infantry at a unit doesn't usually help - two is typically the maximum. Any more should be either flanking somebody, or hanging round the back. What's the case with monsters?

Is there any difference between multi-unit units (eg Kroxigors) vs single-unit units (eg Hydra?) - and how they should best be used?

Is cycle charging worth it with monsters? Or should I just leave them in melee?

Should I try to micro the unit that they're attacking, or just leave them to stomp?

Should I send infantry right behind them, or is that just uneccessary? Should I send infantry in first?

Are there any particularly good strategies with dealing with anti-large, other than just overwhelming them?

What about monster vs monster battles?

.... anything else you want to add?




I've used dinos extensively in my Lizardmen campaign, but with one major exception all the battles where I've had dinos have been extremely one-sided (me > them). How do I get the most bang for my buck?

[Trooper #900129-H]

Depends on what you want to do.

Some monsters can occupy or even solo entire units of infantry, so are perfect for tying up the enemy while your regular dudes go off and kill something else.

Monsters often have very high HP for each model, making them ideal sponges for missle fire, protecting your more vulnerable units.

They are also usually large and have great mass, so when lacking chariots, are also perfectly suited to trash the enemy line and disrupt their formation, opening the way for friendly infantry, or better: A cav charge.

More often than not, monsters cause fear, making them perfect for charging different parts of the enemy line in succesion, causing morale damage troughout.

Often monsters come in few or single numbers, making them well suited to assist heroes or lords in fighting enemy characters more effective then infantry who will mill about, rubbing shoulders in trying to get a hit in.



So it all depends on what type of units/race you are fighting, your own army comp and the situation on battlefield deployement.

[Notoko]

Depends on the monster, flying units should be used to go after rear arty, archer units and/or leader/hero's/spell casters.

I use other monsters to back up infantry by flanking enemy infantry units from the side and rear. Monsters with range attack should be micro'ed so they can keep attacking from range.

[Wyvern]

Originally posted by aidenpons:

Okay okay, yes, the idea of monsters is just to plough them into the enemy lines and watch as they much not-good-against-large ineffective-against-armor infantry.

But beyond that, is there anything more complex?

In infantry battles, throwing ten units of infantry at a unit doesn't usually help - two is typically the maximum. Any more should be either flanking somebody, or hanging round the back. What's the case with monsters?

Is there any difference between multi-unit units (eg Kroxigors) vs single-unit units (eg Hydra?) - and how they should best be used?

Is cycle charging worth it with monsters? Or should I just leave them in melee?

Should I try to micro the unit that they're attacking, or just leave them to stomp?

Should I send infantry right behind them, or is that just uneccessary? Should I send infantry in first?

Are there any particularly good strategies with dealing with anti-large, other than just overwhelming them?

What about monster vs monster battles?

.... anything else you want to add?




I've used dinos extensively in my Lizardmen campaign, but with one major exception all the battles where I've had dinos have been extremely one-sided (me > them). How do I get the most bang for my buck?

Honestly, this is a horribly broad question, given that no two monsters are exactly the same, and some behave far differently in function from others. Generally though, monstrous infantry is best used as a support tool for infantry, parked on top of your troops so that they can get their full hits in, while not taking full return damage from enemy infantry. In the case of some, such as treekin, they are soaking up hits that would otherwise go to your infantry.

Some monstrous infantry/cavalry is specialized for large killing(most notably dragon ogres and minotaurs with GW) and hence they are good for dealing with cav or large single model entities.

Sometimes you will awnt to commit your monsters into a fight first, to soak up a charge that would otherwise brutalize your infantry and allow your infantry to countercharge, in other cases you want your infantry to attack your infantry, denying their charge defense and letting your monsters to follow up with a charge of their own.

Cycle charging is usually not worthwhile unless trying to break a high end anti-large unit from multiple angles, or unless youre dealing with a very fast/mobile monster. On that note, for dealing with high end anti-large, your only options are cycle charging or overwhelming, but often times, the optimal choice would be letting some shooting/infantry to do the work. Furthermore, some monsters are too slow to escape the clutches of faster foot antilarge, like wardancers with asrai spears.

Monster on monster is entirely situational. Monsters usually have enough mass to slow another big unit, so they can be used to provide a barrier that locks big enemies in place for your infantry/skirmishers to murder. In other cases, monsters might be specialized vs large, or have really high melee stats, so units like a dragon ogre shaggoth, star dragon, hellpit abomination and others should often actively seek out such duels.

[Xhal]

Usualy I sick monsters on the weak spot and try to break those spots.

Fast monsters can go after missiles or arty.

If you dont have strong melee characters in the army you can send monsters against enemy characters.

[Musi]

Some monsters synergise well with infantry units in the front lines, like Crypt Horrors being an excellent damage dealer, and even better when a unit of meatshields is there to take the damage for them. Others, like Rat Ogres and even Ushabti if you’re feeling confident, can be used as flanking or archer-killers because of their speed. Then you have things like Arachnaroks and Hell-Pit Abomination and Necrosphinx’s and anything huge, really, which exist purely to send into enemy lines, press alt+k to enter cinematic mode, and to watch the carnage.

[dt Walter Robinson]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Honestly, this is a horribly broad question, given that no two monsters are exactly the same, and some behave far differently in function from others. Generally though, monstrous infantry is best used as a support tool for infantry, parked on top of your troops so that they can get their full hits in, while not taking full return damage from enemy infantry. In the case of some, such as treekin, they are soaking up hits that would otherwise go to your infantry.

Some monstrous infantry/cavalry is specialized for large killing(most notably dragon ogres and minotaurs with GW) and hence they are good for dealing with cav or large single model entities.

Sometimes you will awnt to commit your monsters into a fight first, to soak up a charge that would otherwise brutalize your infantry and allow your infantry to countercharge, in other cases you want your infantry to attack your infantry, denying their charge defense and letting your monsters to follow up with a charge of their own.

Cycle charging is usually not worthwhile unless trying to break a high end anti-large unit from multiple angles, or unless youre dealing with a very fast/mobile monster. On that note, for dealing with high end anti-large, your only options are cycle charging or overwhelming, but often times, the optimal choice would be letting some shooting/infantry to do the work. Furthermore, some monsters are too slow to escape the clutches of faster foot antilarge, like wardancers with asrai spears.

Monster on monster is entirely situational. Monsters usually have enough mass to slow another big unit, so they can be used to provide a barrier that locks big enemies in place for your infantry/skirmishers to murder. In other cases, monsters might be specialized vs large, or have really high melee stats, so units like a dragon ogre shaggoth, star dragon, hellpit abomination and others should often actively seek out such duels.

Honestly best advice.

[THEDOSSBOSS]

Let's go through every monster in just the second game:

High Elves:
Phoenix
- support flying unit, good at rear charges and helping out infantry in a fight. Frostheart makes enemies less effective in a 30m radius. They are also great at taking out infantry. They are certainly not something you would just charge into an enemy head on
Dragons
- used for morale shocks and to take out large numbers of infantry. Their size and speed make them vulnerable to missile fire and are best used against blobs, especially with fire breath.

Dark Elves:
Hydra
- anti-infantry. Not as effective against high tier infantry but this is basically the first monster on this list that can be considered as a 'head on slaughter' monster. It's low armor makes it vulnerable to most anti-large units and of course size and speed are its downfall.
black dragon
- refer to HE dragon. It is somewhere between the strength of a moon dragon and a star dragon

Lizardmen:
Kroxigors
- the first monstrous infantry on this list. Monstrous infantry are anti-infantry and best used to charge in with infantry. The combination of kroxigors and saurus warriors can defeat most high-tier infantry, but they are weak on their own, having no real strengths other than armor and health. They are a tank unit, not a slaughtering one.
Bastillidon
- a tank. Extremely high armor and health but lacks the punching power to deal a lot of damage. Meant to hold the enemy in place and can usually tank out against low-medium tier infantry
Stegadon
- a tank that is better suited against tougher infantry. Unlike bastilladons, stegadons have the damage to tank out against higher tier infantry, while also holding the enemy in place. Both bastilladons and stegadons are great if you want to flank with infantry or range.
Carnosaur
- lower armor, and has an anti-large bonus. It's speed makes it great at reching where it needs to be quickly, and is best suited punching through the enemy lines and getting to the enemy range, or the enemy lord if they are mounted. It is the first monster on the list that is great against large, and can defeat most other monsters and calvery 1 on 1. It performs ok against infantry and is hard to hit due to it's fast attacks, though it is a less viable option against higher tier infantry.
Terradon
- only to be used for rear charges and to chase down enemy infantry. Not a whole lot of things special about these flying monsters

Skaven:
Rat ogres
- less tanky than kroxigors and are among the weakest monstrous infantry in both games. They are not good at solo-ing anything above low tier infantry and are best used to flank or the front lines only if protected by meatshields. It's speed, which is much more than kroxigors, makes it a viable unit to chase range
Hellpit Abomination
- powerful single monster. It can 1v1 other single entity monsters very well and is great against infantry. It is extremely vulnerable to any kind of ranged units, from archers to cannons, due to its size and low armor. That also makes it vulnerable to medium to high tier anti-large units.

Tomb Kings:
Ushabti
- in my opinion the best monstrous infantry in the game, ushabti can come close to defeating an entire unit of black orcs (the second or third best AP high tier unit in the game) on it's own. This unit slaughters any infantry but AP anti-large units. Its speed and armor makes it great against archers and even lords and heroes. If bogged down, it will be destroyed rather quickly so this is meant to be shock monstrous infantry, doing extremely well on the charge and against isolated units.
Ushabti Great Bow
- the only monstrous infantry in the game that has a ranged weapon. These can replace artillery and are powerful against just about anything. Monsters, heroes, lords, artillery, and infantry will be devastated with just a few volley. They also have the same weapon damage as regular ushabti, except wothout the infantry bonus, which makes them viable in combat as well.
Scorpion
- a light single entity construct, scorpions are great against low-medium tier infantry and is a good hero killer as well. They are used as tanks somewhat but with infantry support, as they have less health and are more vulnerable to powerful infantry than other constructs.
Khremian warsphinx
- an anti infantry construct, this is used similarly to the stegadon as a tank, although its speed makes it good at chasing down archers as well. It's increased size makes it more vulnerable to ranged fire, but it can destroy most high tier infantry
Necrosphinx
- currently my favorite monster in the game (ushabti are my favorite monstrous infantry in the game), these are an anti-large variant of the warsphinx, like a carnosaur but with higher armor. It can destroy high tier infantry and monsters with ease, including its direct counterpart, the dragon ogre shaggoth.
Heirotitan
- support large construct. Uses magic and auras to support infantry and is good against units that are weak to fire damage or magical attacks. It cannot stand up against high tier infantry, but is still extremely powerful in blobs

So from this list only stegadons, carnosaurs, hydras, warsphinx, abomination, and necrosphinx follow your definition of what a monster is and does, and 2 of those are best used against large anyways

[Kaaz]

Do the snakey boys not come under monsters or are they more cavalry-y

[THEDOSSBOSS]

Originally posted by Kaaz:

Do the snakey boys not come under monsters or are they more cavalry-y

I would say the sepulchal stalkers are close to monstrous cav, so yeah

Sepulchal stalkers
-Mid tier monstrous calvary, these constructs are surprisingly weak 1on1 against infantry (in my campaign they struggled to kill a unit of clanrats) but work best against large units. They aren't worth using in multiplayer since the snakes with halberds are much more superior and I wouldn't even sabotage my armies in late game single player by having them free. They are a liability in battle and a unit of ushabti would be better against both large units and infantry, even with the stalker's poison attacks

There, how was that? :)

[Kaaz]

I am wounded!

My snakey boys are the best. Dont listen to him! *shields the snakey ears(?) Do snakes have ears?!*

[TaurusBully]

Originally posted by THEDOSSBOSS:

Let's go through every monster in just the second game:

High Elves:
Phoenix
- support flying unit, good at rear charges and helping out infantry in a fight. Frostheart makes enemies less effective in a 30m radius. They are also great at taking out infantry. They are certainly not something you would just charge into an enemy head on
Dragons
- used for morale shocks and to take out large numbers of infantry. Their size and speed make them vulnerable to missile fire and are best used against blobs, especially with fire breath.

Dark Elves:
Hydra
- anti-infantry. Not as effective against high tier infantry but this is basically the first monster on this list that can be considered as a 'head on slaughter' monster. It's low armor makes it vulnerable to most anti-large units and of course size and speed are its downfall.
black dragon
- refer to HE dragon. It is somewhere between the strength of a moon dragon and a star dragon

Lizardmen:
Kroxigors
- the first monstrous infantry on this list. Monstrous infantry are anti-infantry and best used to charge in with infantry. The combination of kroxigors and saurus warriors can defeat most high-tier infantry, but they are weak on their own, having no real strengths other than armor and health. They are a tank unit, not a slaughtering one.
Bastillidon
- a tank. Extremely high armor and health but lacks the punching power to deal a lot of damage. Meant to hold the enemy in place and can usually tank out against low-medium tier infantry
Stegadon
- a tank that is better suited against tougher infantry. Unlike bastilladons, stegadons have the damage to tank out against higher tier infantry, while also holding the enemy in place. Both bastilladons and stegadons are great if you want to flank with infantry or range.
Carnosaur
- lower armor, and has an anti-large bonus. It's speed makes it great at reching where it needs to be quickly, and is best suited punching through the enemy lines and getting to the enemy range, or the enemy lord if they are mounted. It is the first monster on the list that is great against large, and can defeat most other monsters and calvery 1 on 1. It performs ok against infantry and is hard to hit due to it's fast attacks, though it is a less viable option against higher tier infantry.
Terradon
- only to be used for rear charges and to chase down enemy infantry. Not a whole lot of things special about these flying monsters

Skaven:
Rat ogres
- less tanky than kroxigors and are among the weakest monstrous infantry in both games. They are not good at solo-ing anything above low tier infantry and are best used to flank or the front lines only if protected by meatshields. It's speed, which is much more than kroxigors, makes it a viable unit to chase range
Hellpit Abomination
- powerful single monster. It can 1v1 other single entity monsters very well and is great against infantry. It is extremely vulnerable to any kind of ranged units, from archers to cannons, due to its size and low armor. That also makes it vulnerable to medium to high tier anti-large units.

Tomb Kings:
Ushabti
- in my opinion the best monstrous infantry in the game, ushabti can come close to defeating an entire unit of black orcs (the second or third best AP high tier unit in the game) on it's own. This unit slaughters any infantry but AP anti-large units. Its speed and armor makes it great against archers and even lords and heroes. If bogged down, it will be destroyed rather quickly so this is meant to be shock monstrous infantry, doing extremely well on the charge and against isolated units.
Ushabti Great Bow
- the only monstrous infantry in the game that has a ranged weapon. These can replace artillery and are powerful against just about anything. Monsters, heroes, lords, artillery, and infantry will be devastated with just a few volley. They also have the same weapon damage as regular ushabti, except wothout the infantry bonus, which makes them viable in combat as well.
Scorpion
- a light single entity construct, scorpions are great against low-medium tier infantry and is a good hero killer as well. They are used as tanks somewhat but with infantry support, as they have less health and are more vulnerable to powerful infantry than other constructs.
Khremian warsphinx
- an anti infantry construct, this is used similarly to the stegadon as a tank, although its speed makes it good at chasing down archers as well. It's increased size makes it more vulnerable to ranged fire, but it can destroy most high tier infantry
Necrosphinx
- currently my favorite monster in the game (ushabti are my favorite monstrous infantry in the game), these are an anti-large variant of the warsphinx, like a carnosaur but with higher armor. It can destroy high tier infantry and monsters with ease, including its direct counterpart, the dragon ogre shaggoth.
Heirotitan
- support large construct. Uses magic and auras to support infantry and is good against units that are weak to fire damage or magical attacks. It cannot stand up against high tier infantry, but is still extremely powerful in blobs

So from this list only stegadons, carnosaurs, hydras, warsphinx, abomination, and necrosphinx follow your definition of what a monster is and does, and 2 of those are best used against large anyways

Agree with everything, but the Necrosphinx has no splash damage and actually succks against infantry. High tier anti-large infantry will melt it.

It’s insane against other single combat monsters though, the ROR version that has fire can take down Durthu and another Treeman on its own.

[Elias.Five]

Originally posted by TaurusBully:

Originally posted by THEDOSSBOSS:

Let's go through every monster in just the second game:

High Elves:
Phoenix
- support flying unit, good at rear charges and helping out infantry in a fight. Frostheart makes enemies less effective in a 30m radius. They are also great at taking out infantry. They are certainly not something you would just charge into an enemy head on
Dragons
- used for morale shocks and to take out large numbers of infantry. Their size and speed make them vulnerable to missile fire and are best used against blobs, especially with fire breath.

Dark Elves:
Hydra
- anti-infantry. Not as effective against high tier infantry but this is basically the first monster on this list that can be considered as a 'head on slaughter' monster. It's low armor makes it vulnerable to most anti-large units and of course size and speed are its downfall.
black dragon
- refer to HE dragon. It is somewhere between the strength of a moon dragon and a star dragon

Lizardmen:
Kroxigors
- the first monstrous infantry on this list. Monstrous infantry are anti-infantry and best used to charge in with infantry. The combination of kroxigors and saurus warriors can defeat most high-tier infantry, but they are weak on their own, having no real strengths other than armor and health. They are a tank unit, not a slaughtering one.
Bastillidon
- a tank. Extremely high armor and health but lacks the punching power to deal a lot of damage. Meant to hold the enemy in place and can usually tank out against low-medium tier infantry
Stegadon
- a tank that is better suited against tougher infantry. Unlike bastilladons, stegadons have the damage to tank out against higher tier infantry, while also holding the enemy in place. Both bastilladons and stegadons are great if you want to flank with infantry or range.
Carnosaur
- lower armor, and has an anti-large bonus. It's speed makes it great at reching where it needs to be quickly, and is best suited punching through the enemy lines and getting to the enemy range, or the enemy lord if they are mounted. It is the first monster on the list that is great against large, and can defeat most other monsters and calvery 1 on 1. It performs ok against infantry and is hard to hit due to it's fast attacks, though it is a less viable option against higher tier infantry.
Terradon
- only to be used for rear charges and to chase down enemy infantry. Not a whole lot of things special about these flying monsters

Skaven:
Rat ogres
- less tanky than kroxigors and are among the weakest monstrous infantry in both games. They are not good at solo-ing anything above low tier infantry and are best used to flank or the front lines only if protected by meatshields. It's speed, which is much more than kroxigors, makes it a viable unit to chase range
Hellpit Abomination
- powerful single monster. It can 1v1 other single entity monsters very well and is great against infantry. It is extremely vulnerable to any kind of ranged units, from archers to cannons, due to its size and low armor. That also makes it vulnerable to medium to high tier anti-large units.

Tomb Kings:
Ushabti
- in my opinion the best monstrous infantry in the game, ushabti can come close to defeating an entire unit of black orcs (the second or third best AP high tier unit in the game) on it's own. This unit slaughters any infantry but AP anti-large units. Its speed and armor makes it great against archers and even lords and heroes. If bogged down, it will be destroyed rather quickly so this is meant to be shock monstrous infantry, doing extremely well on the charge and against isolated units.
Ushabti Great Bow
- the only monstrous infantry in the game that has a ranged weapon. These can replace artillery and are powerful against just about anything. Monsters, heroes, lords, artillery, and infantry will be devastated with just a few volley. They also have the same weapon damage as regular ushabti, except wothout the infantry bonus, which makes them viable in combat as well.
Scorpion
- a light single entity construct, scorpions are great against low-medium tier infantry and is a good hero killer as well. They are used as tanks somewhat but with infantry support, as they have less health and are more vulnerable to powerful infantry than other constructs.
Khremian warsphinx
- an anti infantry construct, this is used similarly to the stegadon as a tank, although its speed makes it good at chasing down archers as well. It's increased size makes it more vulnerable to ranged fire, but it can destroy most high tier infantry
Necrosphinx
- currently my favorite monster in the game (ushabti are my favorite monstrous infantry in the game), these are an anti-large variant of the warsphinx, like a carnosaur but with higher armor. It can destroy high tier infantry and monsters with ease, including its direct counterpart, the dragon ogre shaggoth.
Heirotitan
- support large construct. Uses magic and auras to support infantry and is good against units that are weak to fire damage or magical attacks. It cannot stand up against high tier infantry, but is still extremely powerful in blobs

So from this list only stegadons, carnosaurs, hydras, warsphinx, abomination, and necrosphinx follow your definition of what a monster is and does, and 2 of those are best used against large anyways

Agree with everything, but the Necrosphinx has no splash damage and actually succks against infantry. High tier anti-large infantry will melt it.

It’s insane against other single combat monsters though, the ROR version that has fire can take down Durthu and another Treeman on its own.

I love the War hydra. I find it good against all infantry but with higher tier units lead in with flame breath then send it in to attack and itll do great

[ChemicalBacon]

Originally posted by aidenpons:

Okay okay, yes, the idea of monsters is just to plough them into the enemy lines and watch as they much not-good-against-large ineffective-against-armor infantry.

But beyond that, is there anything more complex?

In infantry battles, throwing ten units of infantry at a unit doesn't usually help - two is typically the maximum. Any more should be either flanking somebody, or hanging round the back. What's the case with monsters?

Is there any difference between multi-unit units (eg Kroxigors) vs single-unit units (eg Hydra?) - and how they should best be used?

Is cycle charging worth it with monsters? Or should I just leave them in melee?

Should I try to micro the unit that they're attacking, or just leave them to stomp?

Should I send infantry right behind them, or is that just uneccessary? Should I send infantry in first?

Are there any particularly good strategies with dealing with anti-large, other than just overwhelming them?

What about monster vs monster battles?

.... anything else you want to add?




I've used dinos extensively in my Lizardmen campaign, but with one major exception all the battles where I've had dinos have been extremely one-sided (me > them). How do I get the most bang for my buck?

Depends on lineup

Your basic monsters such as trolls are fast and can easily flank units who you are tying up with your main force.
Giants are suited to tackling lots of small enemy units very easily
Dragons are mixed, sun dragons are good vs. infantry and moon dragons are good vs heroes and isolated targets. Star dragons are good vs large targets and infantry.

Dragons have high mobility so you can send them around the battlefield to harass anything.

Every monster has their place, through nromally monsters are classified as large units and therefore anti large units destroy them. Monsters also tend to have less armour but very high weapon strength and charge, making them ideal vs. armour or grouped infantry.

Pretty much all monsters cause fear, a few more cause terror, making them great at routing large groups of units.


People say monsters are nerfed, which is only true if you use them like infantry. It's to do with a hidden stat known as mass - every unit has a mass or weight associated with it. A warsphynx has high mass and therefore can run around the battlefield with no issue at all. Batting infantry everywhere.

Trolls are large units but have less mass than something like a giant, whereas calvary has more mass than infantry and therefore tend to be good anti monster units.

tldr;
Most monsters are fast, use them to flank
Take advantage of high charge stats and weapon strength stats
stay away from anti large